What Exactly is "Shabby Genteel"?

[Slimsid2000]

Seems a bit of a strange term to me. A bit of a contradiction in terms and also it is hard to imagian JTR being genteel at all although shabby is quite likely.

[Sam Flynn]

I take it to mean "wearing what had once been half-decent clothes, but which had seen much better days"... as opposed to the tat that most of the East End poor had, which was cheap-looking to begin with.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Sam

Yes, I seem to remember an amusing quote in the Stephen Knight book regarding Sickert's usual attire in those days, in words to that effect.

[Stephen Thomas]

OK, here's the quote, Page 251.

In the late Eighties, despite his growing reputation as a painter and his large circle of highly placed friends, Sickert spun out his life on a shoestring. Though his clothes were invariably well cut, he did not as yet have the resources to replace them as often as he might have liked.

[Ben]

The suspect observed by several witnesses in Mrs. Fiddymont's pub (possibly Isenschmidt?) was also described as "shabby genteel" and a closer inspection of his reported attire tends to bear out the "shabby" aspect, if not the "genteel" bit.

[Celesta]

Either someone is wearing clothes that were originally nice, maybe a bit pricey, but have now seen better days. The person wearing these might also give the impression of having seen better days financially but also of being polite and refined. We don't know whether JtR appeared that way, or not.

[perrymason]

If I remember correctly, Shabby Genteel was introduced to the Our Gang TV series in its last year of production, after Alfalfa was killed by a jealous starlet while in the bathtub.

She tossed a toaster in the bath water...I understand his hair was dead straight when they buried him.

My best regards.

[Celesta]

A short definition.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/shabby-genteel

or

A nice little story from Charles Dickens explaining 'shabby genteel.'

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/7841/

[Christine]

Victorians were extremely class conscious. There was a way that upper class people were expected to dress, talk, and act, even if they could only afford to do it in second-hand clothes. So he gave the impression of being reasonably educated, and used to moving in upper class circles, but still not well off.

[Sam Flynn]

A nice little story from Charles Dickens explaining 'shabby genteel.'

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/7841/

... "he always had before him a couple of shabby-genteel books: two old dog's-eared folios, in mouldy worm-eaten covers, which had once been smart."

Interesting. Thanks, Cel

[Ben]

I doubt "shabby genteel" had anything to do with class.

Fiddymont's suspect was about as conspicuously scruffy and working class as you can get, and yet he was still described as "shabby genteel". Many working class man would have worn hand-me-down from pawnbrokers, and some of the garments sold may once have been considered stylish once upon a time.

[perrymason]

I doubt "shabby genteel" had anything to do with class.

Fiddymont's suspect was about as conspicuously scruffy and working class as you can get, and yet he was still described as "shabby genteel". Many working class man would have worn hand-me-down from pawnbrokers, and some of the garments sold may once have been considered stylish once upon a time.

I think the word "Shabby" bears you out Ben..as in worn, threadbare or secondhand looking.

The pawn shops must have been fascinating.

Cheers Ben.

[diana]

Memory fails me but wasn't there a huge flea market where you could buy just about anything including second hand clothing near Goulston Street?

[Roy Corduroy]

Yes Diana,

'This was the Lane: not the Petticoat lane of the Sunday morning tourist but the six-day street market in Wentworth St. and the narrow turnings off it - mainly Old Castle St., Bell Lane and Goulston St. as well as parts of Middlesex St.'* Goulston Street housed a new and second-hand clothing market that was supplied with legal and illegally accquired goods that appealed to a man with a meagre income seeking to keep up appearances...*

*Rothschild Buildings: Life in an East End Tenement Block, J White *The Fox and the Flies, C Van Onselen

[Mitch Rowe]

What Exactly is "Shabby Genteel"?

Basically for Whitechapel its like saying JTR had on a T-shirt and blue jeans!