A "general" suspects question

[Guest]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone had ever compiled data on whom among the well known suspects had a history of violent crime...not necessarily murder, prior to the"Ripper" murders in 88. And were know to be in London that same Fall.

Im aware that Tumblety had been accused of poisoning someone in Eastern Canada, I dont believe thats "violent" though....I would guess Deemings entry was based on his prior known crimes because I dont recall reading he was proven to be anywhere near the area at the time, and Vasiliev had previous convictions. Was Cutbush ever charged with his stabbing crimes..I dont know much about him.

Any light shed would be appreciated. Best regards

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello all,

Im aware that Tumblety had been accused of poisoning someone in Eastern Canada, I dont believe thats "violent" though....

Any light shed would be appreciated. Best regards

Tumbelty was a doctor practicing herbal medicine. The idea that all his patients would be miraculously cured is a little unfair...

Perhaps he simply tried his best and failed.

Pirate

[Tom_Wescott]

Charles Le Grand had a habit of beating prostitutes down in the street, or hiring others to do so. I've often thought the Schwartz incident sounded like a Le Grand affair...him standing back while one of his thugs rough houses a girl. Incidentally, he fit the description of Pipeman and was pretty eager to pull a false description out of Matthew Packer and get it publicized. A very fishy fella.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Roy Corduroy]

...whom among the well known suspects had a history of violent crime...

Hi Michael,

James Kelly killed his wife by stabbing her in the neck. 1883.

Roy

[perrymason]

Thanks for the posts so far gents.....nice to see youve resurfaced Tom, welcome back.

Cheers all.

[Supe]

Tom,

A very fishy fella.

Indeed. Do you suppose he had people beaten just for the "halibut"?

Seriously, though, interesting point about Pipeman. I've never seen a description of Le Grand. Could you supply or is that for the book?

Don.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

There is a photo of Le Grand in Stewart's and Donald's book Scotland Yard Investigates.
On that photo, however, he has a full beard, which Pipeman had not.

All the best

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Don and all,

Le Grand was 40 in 1888 but claimed his age to be 35, he was 5'11in tall, and had fair hair. I can't recall how his facial hair was described around that time, but I'm not sure that he had a beard. He had a few days growth in the photo Glenn refers to, but that was taken years earlier. Even if Le Grand was not the Ripper, I think he's a prime suspect for the murder of Stride, given his behavior, activities, and history of prostitute abuse.

Thanks for the welcome back, Michael.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Steve S]

I'm trying to do a chart type thing showing means(knowledge of knives,etc),Motive(general weirdness!...or attacking women),& opportunity(in the area & unaccounted for on murder dates) & fit a dozen or so suspects in.....3 high scores keeps them on my list!
Steve

[Supe]

Tom,

Thanks. It was really the height I was interested in as Pipeman was described as being obviously tall for that time and place. And LeGrand clearly fits in that regard.

Also good to see you on board.

Don.

[perrymason]

Hi Don and all,

Le Grand was 40 in 1888 but claimed his age to be 35, he was 5'11in tall, and had fair hair. I can't recall how his facial hair was described around that time, but I'm not sure that he had a beard. He had a few days growth in the photo Glenn refers to, but that was taken years earlier. Even if Le Grand was not the Ripper, I think he's a prime suspect for the murder of Stride, given his behavior, activities, and history of prostitute abuse.

Thanks for the welcome back, Michael.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

With no slur intended to anyone else, Ive always figured you for the most thorough source on Lizzie's issues Tom, weve missed that.

Although the height concerns me, a man with a history is exactly what I was hoping to discuss on this thread. Do we have charged armed assaults or the like.....if you can discuss it?

Ive always had a weakness for the Vasiliev story solely because of his supposed history....I think with Jack were more likely to find a life long aggressor, rather than a streaker.

Cheers TW

[kensei]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone had ever compiled data on whom among the well known suspects had a history of violent crime...not necessarily murder, prior to the"Ripper" murders in 88. And were know to be in London that same Fall.

Im aware that Tumblety had been accused of poisoning someone in Eastern Canada, I dont believe thats "violent" though....I would guess Deemings entry was based on his prior known crimes because I dont recall reading he was proven to be anywhere near the area at the time, and Vasiliev had previous convictions. Was Cutbush ever charged with his stabbing crimes..I dont know much about him.

Any light shed would be appreciated. Best regards

I would consider any method of murder, including poison, to be a form of violence, which originates in the mind as "I wish someone bodily harm."

Dr. Thomas Neil Cream- poisoned four prostitutes to death in Lambeth.
Severin Klosowski (aka George Chapman)- poisoned his three wives to death.
James Kelly (as already stated)- killed his wife by stabbing her in the throat.
William Bury- Knifed his wife to death Ripper-style in Dundee.
Colicott & Thomas Cutbush (as already mentioned)- stabbed women non-fatally.
Aaron Kosminsky- attempted unsuccessfully to attack his sister with a knife.

Other top suspects:
Michael Ostrog- career criminal but practically nothing violent.
Montague Druitt- no criminal record at all.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Kensei, good list!

Hi Michael,

Le Grand certainly had a history not only as a pimp but as an abuser of prostitutes. He had a strange habit of using them and then turning them over to police. He was charged more than once of either beating a prostitute or having one of his lackeys do it.
He was also a bit of a pyro. In 1887 he wrote the police commissioner an angry letter threatening to burn down buildings. The letter was in red ink. Following the Ripper murders, he wrote a number of wealthy old women extortion letters threatening to blow them up if they didn't pay him. The letters referenced the Whitechapel murders and insulted the police. He seems to have been prepared to follow through on these threats because when the police searched his home they found an 'infernal machine' and other bomb materials.
Le Grand was operating as the head of patrol for the vigilance committee at the time Stride died. They would meet at Mile End Road at midnight and head out on patrol. Assuming the night of the 'double event' was like any other, this puts him mere blocks away from Berner Street within the hour Stride died.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Roy Corduroy]

Le Grand certainly had a history not only as a pimp but as an abuser of prostitutes. He had a strange habit of using them and then turning them over to police. He was charged more than once of either beating a prostitute or having one of his lackeys do it.

Hi Tom, good to hear from you.

We know that how?

We know the other bits you mentioned from the sources quoted in this article, but what is your source(s) for the above?

Roy

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Roy. Mainly lots and lots of newspaper reports, courtesy of awesome researcher, Debra Arif. Also trial transcripts and the such. But I don't want to hijack Michael's thread with a Le Grand discussion. We can talk about all this at another time and place. Incidentally, a lot of what appears in Gerry Nixon's essay is in error. That's no slight on Gerry. He did a great job with the limited information available to him at that time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott