Just my thoughts

[celee]

Hi,

I have been visiting the boards for some time now. I have found them very interesting and have got to chat about a case that has interested me for years. It has been enjoyable to say the least.

Through the years there has arose many debates and the men and women of this site have flexed their super brain power. We have alot of showmen. However, what have we learned?

I am afraid the case has ben beat to death by wordsmiths who over think the case and some plots have been put forth that would make Agatha Christie blush. So, I have decided to own a few of my ideas.

I think it is important to except certain things as fact.

1. Abberline had no Idea who Jack the Ripper was, or at least he was not certain. He was never involved in any conspiracy to keep the identity of the Ripper from the public.

2. Anderson and Swansons witness was less then convincing. He obviously did not convince Abberline or Monroe or anybody else who worked the case. If the witness had been a slam dunk then Abberline, Macnaughten, or Littlechild would have never mentioned any other suspect.

3. Jack the Ripper was not a boogey man who could escape by rooftops or vanish in thin air. He was just a man who was lucky. The Ripper murders span two and half months and the Ripper only struck on 4 or 5 of those nights and only 3 or 4 of the murders were committed outside. He had a fair amount of luck plus he had a fair amount of help. The unfortunates knew the streets better then anyone and they took Jack to the spot he killed them.

4-16 Just my opinion. My apologies to those who I disagree with.

4. Despite what Abberline thought, Martha Tabram was not a Ripper victim. She was killed by a sailor.

5. Mary Kelly was a Ripper victim. Every Detective, to the best of my knowledge, was on board with the idea that Kelly was killed by Jack the Ripper.

6. Everyone of Jack the Rippers victims were prostitutes who would go off with anyone for the right price and I suspect the right price was a bargain.

7. Jack the Ripper chose his victims because they were prostitutes and they were easy targets. He had no specific type. He was not looking for a middle age whore who reminded him of his mother or anything like that. Simply put, he was looking for the right victim in the right place. It did not matter what age or what body type.

8. Jack the Ripper was taken to the spot were he killed by his victims. They took him to the place they felt safe. Kelly took Jack to her home. Jack did not choose Kelly because she worked out of her house. He must have felt like he hit the lottory. He would feel safe enough in her home to indulge in every sick fantasy.

9. Eddowes was killed long before she was spotted by any witness.

10. Liz Stride was a Ripper victim and Shwartz did see Jack the Ripper attack her.

11. All of the Ripper letters that were sighned Jack the Ripper were fake.

12 Jack wrote the graffitti "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing" He was making a religious statement and he was telling the world that he was not a Jew.

13. Jack left the piece of appron on purpose.

14. The murders did not center around Mary Kelly she was just another victim.

15. Alot of bogus suspects have been put forth. I feel out of the hundreds of suspects that have been argued you can rule them all out ecept for, Tumblety, Chapman, Druitt, Kosmiski. One of those four men were Jack the Ripper.

16. There may have been a conspiracy. However, only Monroe could have kept what he knew secret from Abberline, Anderson and Swanson who obviosly were not involved in any conspiracy. The Detectives who worked the field could not keep anything secret from Monroe.

Just a few of my thoughts. I am ranting but I feel alot better.

Your friend, Brad

[Limehouse]

Hi Brad,

Interesting post.

12 Jack wrote the graffitti "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing" He was making a religious statement and he was telling the world that he was not a Jew.

Why didn't he make it easy for everyone and just write "I am not a Jew?"

[Mascara & Paranoia]

And that theory combined with one or two of your suspects doesn't really seem to fit. The only one out of that select few that is the most likely Ripper candidate is that Tumblety fella, but even then almost everything about him says otherwise. I think the only thing that makes him a 'credible' suspect is the myth surrounding the jarred wombs, but I haven't seen any proof to indicate that was truth.

That aside, we're mostly of the same opinion of who Jack was and what he was about, but I'd change a few little things naturally. ;p

[richardnunweek]

Hi Brad,
Great post, i agree on seven points.
Abberline had no idea.
Your views on Anderson/Swanson
Luck being on the killers side
Mary Kelly was a ripper victim
The women would go off with men for the right price.
Stride was a victrim, and shwartz saw her killer
A possibility of a conspiracy.
I would include Tabram as the first victim [ who was killed] so the C6 for me
I would not rule out Ada Wilson as a possible non fatal attack
I believe strongly that either Mjk was killed by someone she knew well, or the market porter she was [ allegedly] seen with by Mrs Maxwell, the latter is the most likely, taking on board everything.
I believe JTR was a brute and incapable of morals, or remorse, and certainly not a smooth operator.
It is not inconceivable that some cover up of some kind was put in operation during or after the murders, not necessary the murders identity, possibly some protection plan involving a minor.
Regards Richard.

[celee]

Hi Brad,

Interesting post.

12 Jack wrote the graffitti "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing" He was making a religious statement and he was telling the world that he was not a Jew.

Why didn't he make it easy for everyone and just write "I am not a Jew?"

Hi,

Obviously, the Grafftti was obviously not written by a Jew. The meaning is simple, A jew is not Jack the Ripper but The Jews were responsible for the death of Christ. The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

Hi P,

I would be interested in reading some of your thoughts.

Hi Richard,

It is nice to read that you agree with me on seven points. However, I have given 16 so, I would like to read your thoughts on those.

Your friend, Brad


Your friend, Brad

[richardnunweek]

Hi Brad,
Lets start with Tabram, I believe she was singled out for a reason, and he entered George yard possibly after a previous client [possibly a soldier ] had left, therefore not taken there by her killer.
I believe Nichols was initially attacked in Brady street, by a drunken man, and she escaped his clutches before meeting her end in Bucks Row.
I believe Chapman [ rather like Tabram] was killed by not the man Mrs Long saw, but someone who entered the yard after Mr Deerstalker had walked back out into Hanbury street and walked off leaving poor Annie in the yard composing herself.
Stride, I believe was killed by the man Schwartz saw[ broadshoulders] and it was him that made his way to Mitre square, and it was then he observed Eddowes talking to a sailor.
I believe that after turning down the sailors request, she possibly to avoid him, walked down church passage into the square, it was then she was grabbed by Broadshoulders.
With reference to the apron. i would suggest that he whilst fleeing the scene. used that to cleanse himself, and dumped it en route to his place of refuge.
In the case of kelly, I have several scenerios.
a] she was a Ripper killing , but the murderer was known to her.
b] she was a copycat killing, and the killer was known to her.
c] she was killed by a market porter , who was not known to her[ JTR] around 9am.
I also strongly dispute Kellys TO.D., and I believe all of ny scenerios involving Kelly were carried out daylight .
I Believe Walter Dews accounts of the morning of kellys murder, especially the 'Youths' involvement, i would say its a good bet that Fionas grandfather was the first on the steps of commercial street police station at 11am that morning, not the aging Bowyer.
Regards Richard.

[kensei]

Hello,

Not sure what you mean by point #9, "Eddowes was killed long before she was spotted by any witness." Do you mean you think she was killed long before Joseph Lawende's claim of having seen her talking to the man outside Mitre Square at 12:35 a.m. and that it wasn't really her that he saw? It is pretty well documented that she was released from jail that night at 1 a.m. and found dead at 1:44. That's not much of a window for her to have been killed long before being seen by any witness. Could you clarify?

[celee]

Hello,

Not sure what you mean by point #9, "Eddowes was killed long before she was spotted by any witness." Do you mean you think she was killed long before Joseph Lawende's claim of having seen her talking to the man outside Mitre Square at 12:35 a.m. and that it wasn't really her that he saw? It is pretty well documented that she was released from jail that night at 1 a.m. and found dead at 1:44. That's not much of a window for her to have been killed long before being seen by any witness. Could you clarify?

Hi,

Thanks for your responce. Maybe you can tell by my last post, I am getting tired but yes, I feel Eddowes was already dead by the time Lawende thought he saw her. Lawende Identified Eddowes by clothing not from personal knowledge of the woman.

Your friend, Brad

[kensei]

Oops, I see that I made a mistake in listing Lawende's sighting at 12:35- I meant to say 1:35. You know, I made that exact same mistake when I was in London five months ago and was shooting video in Mitre Square while narrarating the story out loud. Screwed myself all up and ruined the dramatic effect!

Could you explain why you think she was killed earlier? If so it had to have been between 1 a.m. and however long it takes to walk from Bishopsgate Police Station to Mitre Square.

[celee]

Oops, I see that I made a mistake in listing Lawende's sighting at 12:35- I meant to say 1:35. You know, I made that exact same mistake when I was in London five months ago and was shooting video in Mitre Square while narrarating the story out loud. Screwed myself all up and ruined the dramatic effect!

Could you explain why you think she was killed earlier? If so it had to have been between 1 a.m. and however long it takes to walk from Bishopsgate Police Station to Mitre Square.

Hi,

If I am not mistaken 8 minutes is all the time the Ripper would have had to Attack, Kill, cut up and make good his escape. I just have a hard tim believing that. However, I am not to proud to admitt when I am wrong. So, tell me How long do you think it would have taken Eddowes to walk the distance between Bishopsgate and the police station?

Your friend, Brad

[celee]

Hi Brad,
Lets start with Tabram, I believe she was singled out for a reason, and he entered George yard possibly after a previous client [possibly a soldier ] had left, therefore not taken there by her killer.
I believe Nichols was initially attacked in Brady street, by a drunken man, and she escaped his clutches before meeting her end in Bucks Row.
I believe Chapman [ rather like Tabram] was killed by not the man Mrs Long saw, but someone who entered the yard after Mr Deerstalker had walked back out into Hanbury street and walked off leaving poor Annie in the yard composing herself.
Stride, I believe was killed by the man Schwartz saw[ broadshoulders] and it was him that made his way to Mitre square, and it was then he observed Eddowes talking to a sailor.
I believe that after turning down the sailors request, she possibly to avoid him, walked down church passage into the square, it was then she was grabbed by Broadshoulders.
With reference to the apron. i would suggest that he whilst fleeing the scene. used that to cleanse himself, and dumped it en route to his place of refuge.
In the case of kelly, I have several scenerios.
a] she was a Ripper killing , but the murderer was known to her.
b] she was a copycat killing, and the killer was known to her.
c] she was killed by a market porter , who was not known to her[ JTR] around 9am.
I also strongly dispute Kellys TO.D., and I believe all of ny scenerios involving Kelly were carried out daylight .
I Believe Walter Dews accounts of the morning of kellys murder, especially the 'Youths' involvement, i would say its a good bet that Fionas grandfather was the first on the steps of commercial street police station at 11am that morning, not the aging Bowyer.
Regards Richard.

Thanks Richard.

Your friend, Brad

[kensei]

Yeah, the window of 1:35 to 1:44 to walk Kate into the Square, do the deed and then disappear has been a problem for me too but whenever I've brought it up here people have always assured me that it could have been done. I guess it's always just made me shake my head in amazement rather than actually making me doubtful.

I'm not being confrontational here, I'm just trying to pin down exactly what your theory is and I'm open-minded to anything. My information is a bit limited as I don't know exactly where on Bishopsgate Street the police station was, but if I put it in a central location on that street on the map, and compare it with the 14 minutes it took me to walk from the Stride murder site to Mitre Square, gotta admit I'm just measuring with my fingers here but the distance from Bishopsgate does seem to be about half that. About what time are you estimating Kate was killed?

[ianincleveland]

Ive always been intrigued why Eddowes ddint head straight for Flower &Dean street where she was living and instead when she was released from the custody of City police she went the opposite way into Houndsditch

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Eddowes heading in the opposite direction to Flower & Dean Street doesn't seem too sinister to me. She was probably just looking to earn back the money she'd spent on the drink and, well, got Jack instead.

[celee]

Yeah, the window of 1:35 to 1:44 to walk Kate into the Square, do the deed and then disappear has been a problem for me too but whenever I've brought it up here people have always assured me that it could have been done. I guess it's always just made me shake my head in amazement rather than actually making me doubtful.

I'm not being confrontational here, I'm just trying to pin down exactly what your theory is and I'm open-minded to anything. My information is a bit limited as I don't know exactly where on Bishopsgate Street the police station was, but if I put it in a central location on that street on the map, and compare it with the 14 minutes it took me to walk from the Stride murder site to Mitre Square, gotta admit I'm just measuring with my fingers here but the distance from Bishopsgate does seem to be about half that. About what time are you estimating Kate was killed?

I think that Jack was scared straight off by Shwartz. He Killed Stride and left. If it took 14 minutes for you to walk from the Stride murder site to Mitre Square then I would imagine Jack could have matched your pace and probably would have gotten there sooner. If Shwartz time is correct and he saw the Ripper attack Stride around 12:45 then I would assume Jack could have been in position just after 1:00am. If you are correct about the walk from the Police station to Mitre Square being half the time that would put Eddowes in position just after 1:00am. The Key is the officer walking the beat How acurate and profesional was he?

Timming is important. Remember, he had just killed. He had just been seen attacking his previous victim. Jack is not going to hang around and wait for Eddowes. I think she has to be in position when he arrives and the attack would take place shortly afterwards.

Your friend, Brad