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Old Nichol Gang
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chrisg
4th May 2006, 02:22 PM
Hi everyone
The Old Nichol Gang is often talked about by modern authors and students of the case as having been responsible for the brutal attack and subsequent death of Emma Smith. The gang apparently got its name from the Old Nichol district and may have been one of the gangs at work in the East End along with a High Rip gang who operated protection rackets. However, are there any contemporary or near contemporary mentions of the Old Nichol Gang. OR could it be that the mention of the gang in connection with the Smith murder originates with Donald McCormick who seems to have made liberal use of speculation in writing about the murders? Any thoughts on this anyone?
Chris
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Grey Hunter
4th May 2006, 04:54 PM
'The Old Nichol Gang' was yet another of McCormick's 1959 inventions.
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Jimmy
4th May 2006, 05:11 PM
That was a very succinct answer, GH, which definitely shows what you think of that one!
I do not feel qualified give an opinion on McCormick myself, but James Morton in 'East End Gangland' mentions the Old Nichol Gang (in relation to Emma Smith), but interestingly, the Green Gate Gang also. This may be digressing, but the Green Gate is/was a pub in Bethnal Green. My cousins used to go there when it was a heavy metal pub in the late 70's/early 80's which brings back memories. Morton's reference is the first I have seen. Is there anything else known about this gang?
Jimmy
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chrisg
4th May 2006, 06:07 PM
Thank you, Grey Hunter and Jimmy!
Chris
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 07:35 AM
This thread failed to develop when started and it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the many experts on this site about this subject.
At the last Whitechapel Society meeting I mentioned the above proposition and two members of the audience challenged my contention that 'the Old Nichol Gang' was a McCormick invention.
In reply I asked if they were able to produce a written reference to 'the Old Nichol Gang' that pre-dated McCormick. As yet I have had no reply.
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George Hutchinson
20th October 2006, 10:50 AM
I would be interested to see the sources too, GH. Both your challengers are respected researchers. I just have a feeling - somewhat presumtiously - that maybe they saw refs to a gang in Old Nichols Street but that McCormick was the first time they were collectively referred to as the Old Nichols Gang?
PHILIP
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robert
20th October 2006, 11:14 AM
There must have been gangs in the area. So the question is, was there one gang that was sufficiently more obnoxious than the others, to merit the title The Old Nichol Gang amongst the locals/police of the time?
Robert
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Stephen Thomas
20th October 2006, 01:01 PM
In the fictional 'Child of the Jago' which was apparently well researched, the author describes several gangs in the Old Nichol area which were frequently at war with each other. It could be that people outside the area saw them as a homogenous unit but Grey Hunter is probably right as regards mention of an 'Old Nichol Gang' in print prior to McCormick.
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Debra A
20th October 2006, 01:03 PM
The Times of Thursday, Feb 17, 1881 mentions the 'Friar's-mount gang'
Friar's Mount was represented by three streets, Old Nichols, Nichols and half Nichols.
so I suppose it's not outside the realms of possibility that the Friar's Mount gang was also known locally or by police as The Old Nichol gang
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 01:03 PM
Of course there were street gangs in the area of Old Nichol Street, as there were in most deprived areas of London. However, the notorious street gang apparently invented by McCormick and christened 'the Old Nichol Gang' does not appear to have been referred to in print until McCormick did so. Unless, of course, we can find a reference to 'the Old Nichol Gang' prior to 1959.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 01:56 PM
When searching for references to 'The Old Nichol Gang' it is important to bear in mind the year 1959. This is when McCormick's influential and pioneering Ripper work was published and introduced his immortal words "...the notorious Old Nichol Gang, which, in the last quarter of the last century, terrorized the East End of London."
McCormick continued his description, "The mean streets of this area were often the scene of gang fights between the Hoxton Market Gang and the Old Nichol Gang, named after Old Nichol Street, Bethnal Green, which had been a centre of organized crime for a hundred years. The Nichol Gang used thugs to beat up and rob women of the streets, while their rivals sent out children at nightfall to steal from shops, or snatch from passers-by."
Many subsequent authors were to pick up on this theme.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:05 PM
The above quotes of McCormick appeared on page 19 of his book The Identity of Jack the Ripper. On page 26 he built further upon it -
"P.C. Haine [sic - Thain] cut this unproductive conversation short by suggesting the murder was the work of the Old Nichol Gang, who were known to blackmail prostitutes."
This is obvious invention by McCormick who had 'form' for inventing conversations that he could have had no way of knowing took place.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:10 PM
on page 29 - "They were certain that Smith was murdered by the Nichol Gang and, because of this, assumed - wrongly - that the other two women had also met their fate at the hands of these ruffians."
It may be seen here that McCormick is referring to a specific, named and exact street gang, and is not generalising about a street gang from the area of Old Nichol Street, although, oddly, he drops the 'Old' in this reference.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:15 PM
It was in 1965 that author Robin Odell picked up on the theme started by McCormick in his excellent book Jack the Ripper in Fact & Fiction, page 28 -
"There was reason for believing that Smith was a victim of the notorious Old Nichol Gang, or one of their rivals, which terrorized the East End with organized crime. These gangs frequently assaulted and robbed old people in the streets in broad daylight..."
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 02:28 PM
I was re-reading Paul Beggs Definative history which States:
The Police suspected that the crime was commited by one of the gangs that inhabitted the area. Some of these gangs, such as the Blind Begger mob, who took there name from the Blind Begger Pub (Krays) based themselves in whitechappel but opperated as pick pockets elsewhere. There were fighting gangs, such as the the Green Gate Gang who took their name from a road of the same name. They had been involved in a riot in Bethnal Green in late 1881 and again made news in 1882 when about twenty of them attacked Fredrick Willmore and another man. Beating them so severly that Willmoore had deid from his injuries. One of teh gang received ten years for manslauther. Another gang was the Old Nichol Gang, who operated out of the Nichol, a close knit community of some 6,000 people (according to an estimate made by the London county council, at time of redevelopment in 1895.) who lived in the squalid area bounded by High Street, Shoreditch, Hackney Road to the North and spitalfeilds to the south. It was a place of evil reputation, though it is somewhat unclear just how much this reputation was deserved and how much derived fron writings of Arthur Morrison, who called it the Jago.......
Gangs like the Old Nichol operated as ponces, street robbers, extortionists, protection racketeers and general bullies and thugs, and their like would dominate the east end for years to come. Other notable gangs include the Hoxton Mob or Hoxton High Rips, who were suspected of commiting the Ripper murders: The coons, run by a Jewish man named Isaac Bogard, known by the very un-PC nick name 'Darky the Coon' because he was swarthy skined; the Vendetta Mob, run by Arther Harding; the Titanics and immigrant gangs of notoriety such as the Bessarabians and their rivals the Odessians.
End Quote. Hope this information helps.
Begg also makes the case that Emma's story dosnt necessarily hold true. The place she claims she was attacked was patrolled by police who witnessed nothing...
Also she claims she was attacked by two or three men? Two is hardly a gang and it has been suggested that some of the other murders show evidence of two people working together...which is not out of the realms of possibility.
Thus I beleive that there is a good case of considering Emma Smith an early Ripper Victim if you concider Jack a local boy developing and learning his trade on the street.
Have a good weekend all.
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:29 PM
McCormick had a chance to reprise inventions of 1959 when a second edition of his book appeared in 1970.
The entity 'The Old Nichol Gang' entered the literature of the East End in 1975 in Chaim Bermant's Point of Arrival A Study of London's East End. 'The Old Nichol Gang' appeared on page 177 of this volume -
"Morrison was accused of sensationalism, but the Jago was based on a warren of streets in Bethnal Green called the Old Nichol, home of a notorious pack of cut-throats known as the Old Nichol Gang, who were active in the 1880s and who were thought at first to be responsible for the Jack the Ripper murders. Bethnal Green had been the most poverty-stricken part of the East End ever since the decline of hand-loom weaving and the Old Nichol was its most squalid corner."
Needless to say McCormick's Ripper book (the 1970 edition) appears in Bermant's bibliography.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:45 PM
Author Paul Begg is quoted above, but please may we examine this expanding saga chronologically.
Stephen Knight's Ripper fantasy, Jack the Ripper the Final Solution, was first published in the 1970s and was guaranteed to contain as much Ripper lore as he could find. His weaving in of this story ran -
"In late July or early August the inevitable and long-awaited clue arrived. A shoddy and unsophisticated attempt at blackmail was initiated. The old painter [Sickert] never revealed who had been the victim of the demand, but it was for a paltry - in other circumstances he might have said laughable - sum. It emanated from the East End. It seemed the blackmail was being practised only to pay protection money to a better-organised gang of blackmailers. Sickert was not familiar with the details, but it was discovered that Kelly was involved with three prostitutes, in whose class she had descended to fight off starvation, and at their instigation had resorted to the blackmail. It was a desperate act. She had seen enough of the Cleveland Street raid to enable her to predict her own fate if she were discovered. But fear is relative. It was easy to run the risk of a distant danger if the gamble delivered her from a close one. The perils at hand were death from starvation and the more sinister threats of the blackmail gang of which she had fallen foul. This was probably the Old Nichol Gang, which demanded money and dealt out violence and even death to the holder of an empty purse."
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:05 PM
In East End Underworld - Chapters in the life of Arthur Harding, 1981, author Raphael Samuel mentions the Old Nichol, page 1 -
"In the last quarter of the nineteenth century there were some 6,000 people - men women and children - who lived in the Nichol. The district was bounded by High Street Shoreditch and Hackney Road on the north and Spitalfields to the south. It was made up of many alleys and courts. The principal streets were Boundary Street, the main playing street, Old Nichol Street, New Nichol Street, Half Nichol Street, The Mount - where the old clothes dealers were - and the only street with shops - Church Street. Arthur Morrison in his novel called it 'The Jago.'
The Nichol was something like a ghetto. A stranger wouldn't chance his arm there, but to anyone brought up in it every alley was familiar. The Nichol was a place on its own, you didn't go into other territory...And so the result was that it was a close-knit community and everybody knew everybody.
The whole district bore an evil reputation and was regarded by the working-class people of Bethnal Green as so disreputable that they avoided contact with the people who lived in the Nichol. Some people would have liked to build a wall right round it, so that we wouldn't have to come out. They put everything that was needed inside."
On page 286 a note states -
"The 'evil reputation' of the Nichol owed a great deal to Arthur Morrison's fictionalised account of it in A Child of the Jago, and to the sensational articles and appeals of Father Jay, the slum priest from whom Morrison drew his information...Later writing on the East End has amplified such claims. For typical statements, cf. Walter Besant, East London, 1903, p. 329. ('the place consisting of a dozen miserable streets, was of the vilest kind'); Chaim Bermant, Point of Arrival, 1975, p. 177 ('the Old Nichol, home of a notorious pack of cut-throats known as the Old Nichol gang'). For some earlier examples of the vilification of the Nichol, cf. Raphael Samuel, East End Underworld, vol. I, forthcoming."
And so it can be seen how in these combined writings the boundary between fact and fcition becomes blurred...
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:17 PM
Martin Fido's 1987 The Crimes Detection & Death of Jack the Ripper an Old Nichol Gang is mentioned, page 5 -
"Crime was rife in the East End streets. Just north of Spitalfields lay 'the Nichol', the western extremity of Bethnal Green: criminal territory in native English hands. Gangs from the Nichol and Hoxton made forays into Whitechapel and Spitalfields, mugging and terrorizing streetwalkers, stealing from them, and demanding money in return for 'protection' from violence which they would themselves inflict."
And on page 15 -
"She [Emma Smith] gave a description of her assailants before passing into unconsciousness, but her death was inevitable and occurred four days later [sic]. Her purse was empty, and H Division police had no doubt that an Old Nichol gang had claimed another victim."
It is interesting that Fido refers to 'an' Old Nichol gang, rather than 'the' Old Nichol Gang. Of course there was simply no indication at all of where Smith's attackers came from, and the police stated no such thing. The murderer(s) was/were simply 'a person or persons unknown.'
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks for expanding there Grey Hunter.
But are you saying that the Nichols gang is a fabrication. That no such gang ever existed?
I find that rather hard to swallow.
Coming from the Eastend, gangs have always been part an parcil of the culture. They are there even today asaulting unsuspecting Ripper tours.
They come an they go. But I think it fairly safe to beleive they were there before Jack the Ripper, during the crimes and after.
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:39 PM
Professor William J. Fishman's 1988 work, East End 1888, refers to 'The Old Nichol Mob', page 7 -
"The Old Nichol mob, 'sunken and degraded', were a marginal 'tribe' who inhabited old, decayed cottages, 'originally built below the street level, and, in some cases, some rooms as disclosed in the Builder, as long back as 1860, were mere underground cellars; in others, the houses were so constructed that no light of the sun ever reached portions of the premises, whilst a fruitful source of evil had been the employment of a material called 'billy sweet' in place of mortar, which was incapable of properly drying.'"
And on pages 259-260 -
"Within the peripheral East End borough of Shoreditch, and voluntarily ensconced in the infamous Old Nichol rookeries (which marked him as the heroic padre in Arthur Morrison's Child of the Jago), The Rev. A. Osborne Jay fulminated against 'the blasphemous ravings of the [Salvation] Army preachers..."
Finally on pages 306-307 -
"A detailed description of one popular club, located in the most insalubrious rookery bordering Tower Hamlets, Jays Club for Jago Men in Shoreditch, was given by its founder who was present from its inception until the last day of its existence. Considering that its supporters were drawn from the Old Nichol patch, i.e. mainly street villains and burglars, its rules were few and unwritten, yet all the more rigidly enforced by the vicar, the Rev. A, Osborne Jay."
Fishman does not specifically source his reference to 'The Old Nichol Mob' on page 7 of his book, but the influences of Donald McCormick again appear to be at work and his book is listed in Fishman's bibliography.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:41 PM
Jeff, are you following this? I am not talking about East End gangs being invented, I'm talking about 'The Old Nichol Gang.'
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jdpegg
20th October 2006, 03:44 PM
GH,
that's very interestin.
Just shows how these things can grow
Jenni
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:51 PM
The influential Jack the Ripper A-Z, first published in 1991, has an entry on "GANGS IN THE EAST END" which states -
"Emma Smith was undoubtedly murdered by a group of muggers, probably from 'The Nichol', a criminal slum surrounding Old Nichol Street at the top of Brick Lane.
Other gangs were locally feared and suspected of being involved in the murders. The best-known East End gangs of the period were the Blind Beggar Gang (race track pick-pockets), the Hoxton High-Rips, and the Limehouse Forty Thieves."
'The Old Nichol Gang' moved into the 21st century with Eddleston's Jack the Ripper An Encyclopedia, 2001, page 5 -
"The police investigating the case [Emma Smith murder] noted that there had been three men involved and that the principal motive appeared to be robbery. Though no arrests were made, it was believed that one of the gangs in the area had been responsible - possibly the Old Nichol gang, so named because its base of operations was around Old Nichol Street at the top of Brick Lane."
It would appear from his wording that Eddleston used the A-Z as one of his sources.
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 04:19 PM
Hi Grey Hunter
Yes I think I am slightly confused. So re-read thread from the start.
And I'm still slightly confused as to what piont is being made?
Are you saying there was more than one gang? The Nicols Gang and the Old Nicols gang.
Or that the term 'Old' has just been added on. An embelishment of the Nicols gang....that they were never called the 'Old' Nichols gang.
I must admit I'd miss read the threads to beleive it was being said the 'Nichols' gang didn't exist..which I appologuise for..
However I cant really see much significance in the adition of 'Old' to the gangs name....does it really make that much differance? Unless there were two gangs of course..
Surely the important point is that the police suspected a gangs involvment in Emma's attack but didnt know which. We no there were several gangs on the street aq number listed that they might have investigated. Abberline was bougtht in because of his knowledge of gangs.
And Emma's story doesnt totally hold water.
Does it really matter if the police thought the attacks were done by the YOUNG nichols gang or the OLD?
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:20 PM
'The Old Nichol Gang' was brought up to date in Paul Begg's Jack the Ripper The Definitive History, 2002, page 22 -
"The area began to undergo considerable development and very soon established for itself the reputation of being 'a disreputable place, frequented by courtesans.' By the mid-19th century it was perhaps best known for its violent street gangs, particularly one known as the Old Nichol Gang after their notorious place of origin, the Nichol to be immortalised in letrature as the Jago. These gangs roamed the district and caused considerable trouble. They were even suspected of committing the Jack the Ripper murders."
And on pages 29-30 -
"The police suspected that the crime was committed by one of the gangs that inhabited the area. Some of these gangs such as the Blind Beggar Mob who took their name from the Blind Beggar Pub...based themselves in Whitechapel but operated - as pickpockets - elsewhere. There were fighting gangs, such as the Green Gate Gang who took their name from the road of the same name...Another gang was the Old Nichol Gang, who operated out of The Nichol, a close-knit community of some 6,000 people who lived in a squalid area bounded by High Street, Shoreditch and Hackney Road to the north and Spitalfields to the south. It was a place of evil reputation, though it is somewhat unclear just how much this reputation was real and how much derived from the writings of Arthur Morrison, who called it 'The Jago', and Rev. A. Osborne Jay, who was the source of much of Morrison's information and is portrayed, albeit rather glamorously, in Morrison's famous A Child of the Jago as Father Sturt. Perhaps exaggerated by Morrison, it was nevertheless an area noted for decades as a place of extreme deprivation."
On pages 30-31 -
"Gangs like the Old Nichol operated as ponces, street robbers, extortionists, protection racketeers, and generally as bullies and thugs, and their like would dominate the East End for years to come, notably the Hoxton Mob or Hoxton High Rips, who were also suspected of committing the Ripper murders, The Coons, run by a Jewish man named Isaac Bogard known by the very un-PC nickname 'Darky the Coon' because he was swarthy skinned, the Vendetta Mob, run by Arthur Harding, The Titanics, and immigrant gangs of notoriety such as the Bessarabians and their rivals the Odessians.
Whether Emma Smith was the victim of a gang is uncertain..."
Finally on page 96 -
"By the end of the day two theories were given wide circulation. One was that the murder [Nichols] had been committed by one of the gangs known to operate in the area and extort money from the local prostitutes. Little is known about these gangs, although one which achieved notoriety was the 'Old Nichol gang' who hailed from an area known as the Old Nichol in Bethnal Green."
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:30 PM
Jeff, you appear to be totally missing the point, and the premise upon which this thread was started. And that is that Donald McCormick invented a notorious gang specifically named 'The Old Nichol Gang.' A theme that has been picked up by several subsequent authors but for which there appears to be no source prior to McCormick in 1959.
The belief at the time of Emma Smith's murder was that she had been attacked by a group of three street hooligans, whether a gang or not, and that was based on the story that Smith herself told. There is no reason to suspect that she would have been lying about this.
The street gang idea was bandied about in the press reports after the Nichols murder but there is nothing to suggest that the police took it seriously, nor that they actually connected her attack with that on Smith some five months previously.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:46 PM
Lloyds Weekly News of 8 April 1888 reported -
"The deceased told her she had been shockingly maltreated by a number of men and robbed of all the money she had. Her face was bleeding, and her ear was cut. She did not describe the men, but said one was a young man of about 19."
A witness at the Smith inquest, Margaret Hames, expanded on the menace of the street hooligans, in the same newspaper -
"Another witness gave evidence that she had last seen Emma Smith between 12 and one on Tuesday morning, talking to a man in a black dress, wearing a white neckerchief. It was near Farrant-street, Burdett-road. She [Hames] was hurrying away from the neighbourhood, as she had herself been struck in the mouth a few minutes before by some young men. The quarter was a fearfully rough one. Just before Christmas last she had been injured by men under circumstances of a similar nature, and was a fortnight in the infirmary."
Chief Inspector West reported on the attack on Smith -
"Deceased could not describe the men who had ill-used her but said there were three of them, and that she was attacked about 1.30 a.m. on the 3rd, while passing Whitechapel Church...
Coroner further expressed his intention of forwarding the particulars of the case to the Public Prosecutor as being one requiring further investigation with respect of the person or persons who committed the crime."
So no specific mention of 'a gang', but clearly three male street robbers had fearfully assaulted Smith.
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 04:59 PM
Then why did the police recall Inspector Abberline..an expert in the local gangs if they did not have some suspicions of gang involvement...
Whether called the young Nichol gang the old nicol gang or the tiny tot nicol gang...
They must have suspected gang involvement,
Jeff
Most dash now will catch up later.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 05:06 PM
With the murder of Mary Ann Nichols in Buck's Row on 31 August 1888 the idea of a blackmailing street gang being involved in the murders was launched. The Daily Telegraph of September 1, 1888 -
"The police have no theory with respect to the matter, except that a sort of "High Rip" gang exists in the neighbourhood, which, blackmailing women of the same class as the deceased, takes vengeance on those who do not find money for them. They base that surmise on the fact that within twelve months two other women have been murdered in the district by almost similar means, and left in the gutter of the street in the early hours of the morning."
And the Manchester Evening News of September 3, 1888 -
"It has been stated in some quarters that there is reason to suggest the existence of a murderous gang in the Whitechapel district, to which this and other tragedies might be traced, but the police give no credence to the theory.
The assumption is that the brutal crime was committed by one of a "High Rip" gang who are known in the neighbourhood to be in the habit of blackmailing unfortunate women, and treating them in a brutal manner. The names of some of this band of roughs are known to the detective officers..."
East London Advertiser, September 8, 1888 -
"A woman, it is stated, was leaving the Foresters' Music Hall, Cambridge-road, where she had been spending the evening with a sea-captain, when she was accosted by a well-dressed man, who requested her to walk a short distance from him, as he wanted to meet a friend. They had reached a point near the scene of the murder of the woman Nicholls [sic], when the man violently seized her by the throat and dragged her down a court. He was immediately joined by a gang of bullies, who stripped the unfortunate woman of necklace, ear-rings, and brooch. Her purse was also taken, and she was brutally assaulted. Upon her attempting to shout for aid one of the gang laid a large knife across her throat, remarking, 'We will serve you as we did the others.' She was, however, eventually released."
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
Old Nichol Gang
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chrisg
4th May 2006, 02:22 PM
Hi everyone
The Old Nichol Gang is often talked about by modern authors and students of the case as having been responsible for the brutal attack and subsequent death of Emma Smith. The gang apparently got its name from the Old Nichol district and may have been one of the gangs at work in the East End along with a High Rip gang who operated protection rackets. However, are there any contemporary or near contemporary mentions of the Old Nichol Gang. OR could it be that the mention of the gang in connection with the Smith murder originates with Donald McCormick who seems to have made liberal use of speculation in writing about the murders? Any thoughts on this anyone?
Chris
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Grey Hunter
4th May 2006, 04:54 PM
'The Old Nichol Gang' was yet another of McCormick's 1959 inventions.
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Jimmy
4th May 2006, 05:11 PM
That was a very succinct answer, GH, which definitely shows what you think of that one!
I do not feel qualified give an opinion on McCormick myself, but James Morton in 'East End Gangland' mentions the Old Nichol Gang (in relation to Emma Smith), but interestingly, the Green Gate Gang also. This may be digressing, but the Green Gate is/was a pub in Bethnal Green. My cousins used to go there when it was a heavy metal pub in the late 70's/early 80's which brings back memories. Morton's reference is the first I have seen. Is there anything else known about this gang?
Jimmy
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chrisg
4th May 2006, 06:07 PM
Thank you, Grey Hunter and Jimmy!
Chris
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 07:35 AM
This thread failed to develop when started and it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the many experts on this site about this subject.
At the last Whitechapel Society meeting I mentioned the above proposition and two members of the audience challenged my contention that 'the Old Nichol Gang' was a McCormick invention.
In reply I asked if they were able to produce a written reference to 'the Old Nichol Gang' that pre-dated McCormick. As yet I have had no reply.
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George Hutchinson
20th October 2006, 10:50 AM
I would be interested to see the sources too, GH. Both your challengers are respected researchers. I just have a feeling - somewhat presumtiously - that maybe they saw refs to a gang in Old Nichols Street but that McCormick was the first time they were collectively referred to as the Old Nichols Gang?
PHILIP
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robert
20th October 2006, 11:14 AM
There must have been gangs in the area. So the question is, was there one gang that was sufficiently more obnoxious than the others, to merit the title The Old Nichol Gang amongst the locals/police of the time?
Robert
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Stephen Thomas
20th October 2006, 01:01 PM
In the fictional 'Child of the Jago' which was apparently well researched, the author describes several gangs in the Old Nichol area which were frequently at war with each other. It could be that people outside the area saw them as a homogenous unit but Grey Hunter is probably right as regards mention of an 'Old Nichol Gang' in print prior to McCormick.
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Debra A
20th October 2006, 01:03 PM
The Times of Thursday, Feb 17, 1881 mentions the 'Friar's-mount gang'
Friar's Mount was represented by three streets, Old Nichols, Nichols and half Nichols.
so I suppose it's not outside the realms of possibility that the Friar's Mount gang was also known locally or by police as The Old Nichol gang
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 01:03 PM
Of course there were street gangs in the area of Old Nichol Street, as there were in most deprived areas of London. However, the notorious street gang apparently invented by McCormick and christened 'the Old Nichol Gang' does not appear to have been referred to in print until McCormick did so. Unless, of course, we can find a reference to 'the Old Nichol Gang' prior to 1959.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 01:56 PM
When searching for references to 'The Old Nichol Gang' it is important to bear in mind the year 1959. This is when McCormick's influential and pioneering Ripper work was published and introduced his immortal words "...the notorious Old Nichol Gang, which, in the last quarter of the last century, terrorized the East End of London."
McCormick continued his description, "The mean streets of this area were often the scene of gang fights between the Hoxton Market Gang and the Old Nichol Gang, named after Old Nichol Street, Bethnal Green, which had been a centre of organized crime for a hundred years. The Nichol Gang used thugs to beat up and rob women of the streets, while their rivals sent out children at nightfall to steal from shops, or snatch from passers-by."
Many subsequent authors were to pick up on this theme.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:05 PM
The above quotes of McCormick appeared on page 19 of his book The Identity of Jack the Ripper. On page 26 he built further upon it -
"P.C. Haine [sic - Thain] cut this unproductive conversation short by suggesting the murder was the work of the Old Nichol Gang, who were known to blackmail prostitutes."
This is obvious invention by McCormick who had 'form' for inventing conversations that he could have had no way of knowing took place.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:10 PM
on page 29 - "They were certain that Smith was murdered by the Nichol Gang and, because of this, assumed - wrongly - that the other two women had also met their fate at the hands of these ruffians."
It may be seen here that McCormick is referring to a specific, named and exact street gang, and is not generalising about a street gang from the area of Old Nichol Street, although, oddly, he drops the 'Old' in this reference.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:15 PM
It was in 1965 that author Robin Odell picked up on the theme started by McCormick in his excellent book Jack the Ripper in Fact & Fiction, page 28 -
"There was reason for believing that Smith was a victim of the notorious Old Nichol Gang, or one of their rivals, which terrorized the East End with organized crime. These gangs frequently assaulted and robbed old people in the streets in broad daylight..."
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 02:28 PM
I was re-reading Paul Beggs Definative history which States:
The Police suspected that the crime was commited by one of the gangs that inhabitted the area. Some of these gangs, such as the Blind Begger mob, who took there name from the Blind Begger Pub (Krays) based themselves in whitechappel but opperated as pick pockets elsewhere. There were fighting gangs, such as the the Green Gate Gang who took their name from a road of the same name. They had been involved in a riot in Bethnal Green in late 1881 and again made news in 1882 when about twenty of them attacked Fredrick Willmore and another man. Beating them so severly that Willmoore had deid from his injuries. One of teh gang received ten years for manslauther. Another gang was the Old Nichol Gang, who operated out of the Nichol, a close knit community of some 6,000 people (according to an estimate made by the London county council, at time of redevelopment in 1895.) who lived in the squalid area bounded by High Street, Shoreditch, Hackney Road to the North and spitalfeilds to the south. It was a place of evil reputation, though it is somewhat unclear just how much this reputation was deserved and how much derived fron writings of Arthur Morrison, who called it the Jago.......
Gangs like the Old Nichol operated as ponces, street robbers, extortionists, protection racketeers and general bullies and thugs, and their like would dominate the east end for years to come. Other notable gangs include the Hoxton Mob or Hoxton High Rips, who were suspected of commiting the Ripper murders: The coons, run by a Jewish man named Isaac Bogard, known by the very un-PC nick name 'Darky the Coon' because he was swarthy skined; the Vendetta Mob, run by Arther Harding; the Titanics and immigrant gangs of notoriety such as the Bessarabians and their rivals the Odessians.
End Quote. Hope this information helps.
Begg also makes the case that Emma's story dosnt necessarily hold true. The place she claims she was attacked was patrolled by police who witnessed nothing...
Also she claims she was attacked by two or three men? Two is hardly a gang and it has been suggested that some of the other murders show evidence of two people working together...which is not out of the realms of possibility.
Thus I beleive that there is a good case of considering Emma Smith an early Ripper Victim if you concider Jack a local boy developing and learning his trade on the street.
Have a good weekend all.
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:29 PM
McCormick had a chance to reprise inventions of 1959 when a second edition of his book appeared in 1970.
The entity 'The Old Nichol Gang' entered the literature of the East End in 1975 in Chaim Bermant's Point of Arrival A Study of London's East End. 'The Old Nichol Gang' appeared on page 177 of this volume -
"Morrison was accused of sensationalism, but the Jago was based on a warren of streets in Bethnal Green called the Old Nichol, home of a notorious pack of cut-throats known as the Old Nichol Gang, who were active in the 1880s and who were thought at first to be responsible for the Jack the Ripper murders. Bethnal Green had been the most poverty-stricken part of the East End ever since the decline of hand-loom weaving and the Old Nichol was its most squalid corner."
Needless to say McCormick's Ripper book (the 1970 edition) appears in Bermant's bibliography.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 02:45 PM
Author Paul Begg is quoted above, but please may we examine this expanding saga chronologically.
Stephen Knight's Ripper fantasy, Jack the Ripper the Final Solution, was first published in the 1970s and was guaranteed to contain as much Ripper lore as he could find. His weaving in of this story ran -
"In late July or early August the inevitable and long-awaited clue arrived. A shoddy and unsophisticated attempt at blackmail was initiated. The old painter [Sickert] never revealed who had been the victim of the demand, but it was for a paltry - in other circumstances he might have said laughable - sum. It emanated from the East End. It seemed the blackmail was being practised only to pay protection money to a better-organised gang of blackmailers. Sickert was not familiar with the details, but it was discovered that Kelly was involved with three prostitutes, in whose class she had descended to fight off starvation, and at their instigation had resorted to the blackmail. It was a desperate act. She had seen enough of the Cleveland Street raid to enable her to predict her own fate if she were discovered. But fear is relative. It was easy to run the risk of a distant danger if the gamble delivered her from a close one. The perils at hand were death from starvation and the more sinister threats of the blackmail gang of which she had fallen foul. This was probably the Old Nichol Gang, which demanded money and dealt out violence and even death to the holder of an empty purse."
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:05 PM
In East End Underworld - Chapters in the life of Arthur Harding, 1981, author Raphael Samuel mentions the Old Nichol, page 1 -
"In the last quarter of the nineteenth century there were some 6,000 people - men women and children - who lived in the Nichol. The district was bounded by High Street Shoreditch and Hackney Road on the north and Spitalfields to the south. It was made up of many alleys and courts. The principal streets were Boundary Street, the main playing street, Old Nichol Street, New Nichol Street, Half Nichol Street, The Mount - where the old clothes dealers were - and the only street with shops - Church Street. Arthur Morrison in his novel called it 'The Jago.'
The Nichol was something like a ghetto. A stranger wouldn't chance his arm there, but to anyone brought up in it every alley was familiar. The Nichol was a place on its own, you didn't go into other territory...And so the result was that it was a close-knit community and everybody knew everybody.
The whole district bore an evil reputation and was regarded by the working-class people of Bethnal Green as so disreputable that they avoided contact with the people who lived in the Nichol. Some people would have liked to build a wall right round it, so that we wouldn't have to come out. They put everything that was needed inside."
On page 286 a note states -
"The 'evil reputation' of the Nichol owed a great deal to Arthur Morrison's fictionalised account of it in A Child of the Jago, and to the sensational articles and appeals of Father Jay, the slum priest from whom Morrison drew his information...Later writing on the East End has amplified such claims. For typical statements, cf. Walter Besant, East London, 1903, p. 329. ('the place consisting of a dozen miserable streets, was of the vilest kind'); Chaim Bermant, Point of Arrival, 1975, p. 177 ('the Old Nichol, home of a notorious pack of cut-throats known as the Old Nichol gang'). For some earlier examples of the vilification of the Nichol, cf. Raphael Samuel, East End Underworld, vol. I, forthcoming."
And so it can be seen how in these combined writings the boundary between fact and fcition becomes blurred...
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:17 PM
Martin Fido's 1987 The Crimes Detection & Death of Jack the Ripper an Old Nichol Gang is mentioned, page 5 -
"Crime was rife in the East End streets. Just north of Spitalfields lay 'the Nichol', the western extremity of Bethnal Green: criminal territory in native English hands. Gangs from the Nichol and Hoxton made forays into Whitechapel and Spitalfields, mugging and terrorizing streetwalkers, stealing from them, and demanding money in return for 'protection' from violence which they would themselves inflict."
And on page 15 -
"She [Emma Smith] gave a description of her assailants before passing into unconsciousness, but her death was inevitable and occurred four days later [sic]. Her purse was empty, and H Division police had no doubt that an Old Nichol gang had claimed another victim."
It is interesting that Fido refers to 'an' Old Nichol gang, rather than 'the' Old Nichol Gang. Of course there was simply no indication at all of where Smith's attackers came from, and the police stated no such thing. The murderer(s) was/were simply 'a person or persons unknown.'
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks for expanding there Grey Hunter.
But are you saying that the Nichols gang is a fabrication. That no such gang ever existed?
I find that rather hard to swallow.
Coming from the Eastend, gangs have always been part an parcil of the culture. They are there even today asaulting unsuspecting Ripper tours.
They come an they go. But I think it fairly safe to beleive they were there before Jack the Ripper, during the crimes and after.
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:39 PM
Professor William J. Fishman's 1988 work, East End 1888, refers to 'The Old Nichol Mob', page 7 -
"The Old Nichol mob, 'sunken and degraded', were a marginal 'tribe' who inhabited old, decayed cottages, 'originally built below the street level, and, in some cases, some rooms as disclosed in the Builder, as long back as 1860, were mere underground cellars; in others, the houses were so constructed that no light of the sun ever reached portions of the premises, whilst a fruitful source of evil had been the employment of a material called 'billy sweet' in place of mortar, which was incapable of properly drying.'"
And on pages 259-260 -
"Within the peripheral East End borough of Shoreditch, and voluntarily ensconced in the infamous Old Nichol rookeries (which marked him as the heroic padre in Arthur Morrison's Child of the Jago), The Rev. A. Osborne Jay fulminated against 'the blasphemous ravings of the [Salvation] Army preachers..."
Finally on pages 306-307 -
"A detailed description of one popular club, located in the most insalubrious rookery bordering Tower Hamlets, Jays Club for Jago Men in Shoreditch, was given by its founder who was present from its inception until the last day of its existence. Considering that its supporters were drawn from the Old Nichol patch, i.e. mainly street villains and burglars, its rules were few and unwritten, yet all the more rigidly enforced by the vicar, the Rev. A, Osborne Jay."
Fishman does not specifically source his reference to 'The Old Nichol Mob' on page 7 of his book, but the influences of Donald McCormick again appear to be at work and his book is listed in Fishman's bibliography.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:41 PM
Jeff, are you following this? I am not talking about East End gangs being invented, I'm talking about 'The Old Nichol Gang.'
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jdpegg
20th October 2006, 03:44 PM
GH,
that's very interestin.
Just shows how these things can grow
Jenni
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 03:51 PM
The influential Jack the Ripper A-Z, first published in 1991, has an entry on "GANGS IN THE EAST END" which states -
"Emma Smith was undoubtedly murdered by a group of muggers, probably from 'The Nichol', a criminal slum surrounding Old Nichol Street at the top of Brick Lane.
Other gangs were locally feared and suspected of being involved in the murders. The best-known East End gangs of the period were the Blind Beggar Gang (race track pick-pockets), the Hoxton High-Rips, and the Limehouse Forty Thieves."
'The Old Nichol Gang' moved into the 21st century with Eddleston's Jack the Ripper An Encyclopedia, 2001, page 5 -
"The police investigating the case [Emma Smith murder] noted that there had been three men involved and that the principal motive appeared to be robbery. Though no arrests were made, it was believed that one of the gangs in the area had been responsible - possibly the Old Nichol gang, so named because its base of operations was around Old Nichol Street at the top of Brick Lane."
It would appear from his wording that Eddleston used the A-Z as one of his sources.
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 04:19 PM
Hi Grey Hunter
Yes I think I am slightly confused. So re-read thread from the start.
And I'm still slightly confused as to what piont is being made?
Are you saying there was more than one gang? The Nicols Gang and the Old Nicols gang.
Or that the term 'Old' has just been added on. An embelishment of the Nicols gang....that they were never called the 'Old' Nichols gang.
I must admit I'd miss read the threads to beleive it was being said the 'Nichols' gang didn't exist..which I appologuise for..
However I cant really see much significance in the adition of 'Old' to the gangs name....does it really make that much differance? Unless there were two gangs of course..
Surely the important point is that the police suspected a gangs involvment in Emma's attack but didnt know which. We no there were several gangs on the street aq number listed that they might have investigated. Abberline was bougtht in because of his knowledge of gangs.
And Emma's story doesnt totally hold water.
Does it really matter if the police thought the attacks were done by the YOUNG nichols gang or the OLD?
Jeff
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:20 PM
'The Old Nichol Gang' was brought up to date in Paul Begg's Jack the Ripper The Definitive History, 2002, page 22 -
"The area began to undergo considerable development and very soon established for itself the reputation of being 'a disreputable place, frequented by courtesans.' By the mid-19th century it was perhaps best known for its violent street gangs, particularly one known as the Old Nichol Gang after their notorious place of origin, the Nichol to be immortalised in letrature as the Jago. These gangs roamed the district and caused considerable trouble. They were even suspected of committing the Jack the Ripper murders."
And on pages 29-30 -
"The police suspected that the crime was committed by one of the gangs that inhabited the area. Some of these gangs such as the Blind Beggar Mob who took their name from the Blind Beggar Pub...based themselves in Whitechapel but operated - as pickpockets - elsewhere. There were fighting gangs, such as the Green Gate Gang who took their name from the road of the same name...Another gang was the Old Nichol Gang, who operated out of The Nichol, a close-knit community of some 6,000 people who lived in a squalid area bounded by High Street, Shoreditch and Hackney Road to the north and Spitalfields to the south. It was a place of evil reputation, though it is somewhat unclear just how much this reputation was real and how much derived from the writings of Arthur Morrison, who called it 'The Jago', and Rev. A. Osborne Jay, who was the source of much of Morrison's information and is portrayed, albeit rather glamorously, in Morrison's famous A Child of the Jago as Father Sturt. Perhaps exaggerated by Morrison, it was nevertheless an area noted for decades as a place of extreme deprivation."
On pages 30-31 -
"Gangs like the Old Nichol operated as ponces, street robbers, extortionists, protection racketeers, and generally as bullies and thugs, and their like would dominate the East End for years to come, notably the Hoxton Mob or Hoxton High Rips, who were also suspected of committing the Ripper murders, The Coons, run by a Jewish man named Isaac Bogard known by the very un-PC nickname 'Darky the Coon' because he was swarthy skinned, the Vendetta Mob, run by Arthur Harding, The Titanics, and immigrant gangs of notoriety such as the Bessarabians and their rivals the Odessians.
Whether Emma Smith was the victim of a gang is uncertain..."
Finally on page 96 -
"By the end of the day two theories were given wide circulation. One was that the murder [Nichols] had been committed by one of the gangs known to operate in the area and extort money from the local prostitutes. Little is known about these gangs, although one which achieved notoriety was the 'Old Nichol gang' who hailed from an area known as the Old Nichol in Bethnal Green."
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:30 PM
Jeff, you appear to be totally missing the point, and the premise upon which this thread was started. And that is that Donald McCormick invented a notorious gang specifically named 'The Old Nichol Gang.' A theme that has been picked up by several subsequent authors but for which there appears to be no source prior to McCormick in 1959.
The belief at the time of Emma Smith's murder was that she had been attacked by a group of three street hooligans, whether a gang or not, and that was based on the story that Smith herself told. There is no reason to suspect that she would have been lying about this.
The street gang idea was bandied about in the press reports after the Nichols murder but there is nothing to suggest that the police took it seriously, nor that they actually connected her attack with that on Smith some five months previously.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 04:46 PM
Lloyds Weekly News of 8 April 1888 reported -
"The deceased told her she had been shockingly maltreated by a number of men and robbed of all the money she had. Her face was bleeding, and her ear was cut. She did not describe the men, but said one was a young man of about 19."
A witness at the Smith inquest, Margaret Hames, expanded on the menace of the street hooligans, in the same newspaper -
"Another witness gave evidence that she had last seen Emma Smith between 12 and one on Tuesday morning, talking to a man in a black dress, wearing a white neckerchief. It was near Farrant-street, Burdett-road. She [Hames] was hurrying away from the neighbourhood, as she had herself been struck in the mouth a few minutes before by some young men. The quarter was a fearfully rough one. Just before Christmas last she had been injured by men under circumstances of a similar nature, and was a fortnight in the infirmary."
Chief Inspector West reported on the attack on Smith -
"Deceased could not describe the men who had ill-used her but said there were three of them, and that she was attacked about 1.30 a.m. on the 3rd, while passing Whitechapel Church...
Coroner further expressed his intention of forwarding the particulars of the case to the Public Prosecutor as being one requiring further investigation with respect of the person or persons who committed the crime."
So no specific mention of 'a gang', but clearly three male street robbers had fearfully assaulted Smith.
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jeffl
20th October 2006, 04:59 PM
Then why did the police recall Inspector Abberline..an expert in the local gangs if they did not have some suspicions of gang involvement...
Whether called the young Nichol gang the old nicol gang or the tiny tot nicol gang...
They must have suspected gang involvement,
Jeff
Most dash now will catch up later.
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Grey Hunter
20th October 2006, 05:06 PM
With the murder of Mary Ann Nichols in Buck's Row on 31 August 1888 the idea of a blackmailing street gang being involved in the murders was launched. The Daily Telegraph of September 1, 1888 -
"The police have no theory with respect to the matter, except that a sort of "High Rip" gang exists in the neighbourhood, which, blackmailing women of the same class as the deceased, takes vengeance on those who do not find money for them. They base that surmise on the fact that within twelve months two other women have been murdered in the district by almost similar means, and left in the gutter of the street in the early hours of the morning."
And the Manchester Evening News of September 3, 1888 -
"It has been stated in some quarters that there is reason to suggest the existence of a murderous gang in the Whitechapel district, to which this and other tragedies might be traced, but the police give no credence to the theory.
The assumption is that the brutal crime was committed by one of a "High Rip" gang who are known in the neighbourhood to be in the habit of blackmailing unfortunate women, and treating them in a brutal manner. The names of some of this band of roughs are known to the detective officers..."
East London Advertiser, September 8, 1888 -
"A woman, it is stated, was leaving the Foresters' Music Hall, Cambridge-road, where she had been spending the evening with a sea-captain, when she was accosted by a well-dressed man, who requested her to walk a short distance from him, as he wanted to meet a friend. They had reached a point near the scene of the murder of the woman Nicholls [sic], when the man violently seized her by the throat and dragged her down a court. He was immediately joined by a gang of bullies, who stripped the unfortunate woman of necklace, ear-rings, and brooch. Her purse was also taken, and she was brutally assaulted. Upon her attempting to shout for aid one of the gang laid a large knife across her throat, remarking, 'We will serve you as we did the others.' She was, however, eventually released."
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