rings kosminski and bury

[lovejoy]

hi all on here im a new detective just been bought in to freshen up ideas on murderer i was wonderin if anyone could tell me if there are photos of or description of rings taken from catherine eddowes at hanbury street also are there any photos of arron kosminski and thirdly william henry bury when he was hanged in scotland after killing his wife was there an infantory of everything found in his house in the papers or on police files etc can any one help me out yours lovejoy just lovejoy no mister

[Chris]

...are there any photos of arron kosminski ...

Not as far as I know.

[lovejoy]

thanks for reply thats quite strange considering he was supposedly identified as killer

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Mugshots

Lovejoy,

Mug shots were taken during the time of JTR, and suspects were only suspects and no reason to take mug shots of them, unless they were arrested for the crime, however mug shots were not a science and the filing systems were a mess, there may be pictures of the suspect but it would have to be a personal picture in a family album.

BW

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy,

Mug shots were taken during the time of JTR, and suspects were only suspects and no reason to take mug shots of them, unless they were arrested for the crime, however mug shots were not a science and the filing systems were a mess, there may be pictures of the suspect but it would have to be a personal picture in a family album.

BW

hi bluewizard thanks for your help thats good advice family albums is a line to follow however hard thanks

[tom dooley]

chapman was the hanbury street victim not eddows as far as i know no 2 brass rings i would think plain bands

[LadyG]

I find this bit of the ripper mythos interesting, as some accounts swear by the removal of rings, and others attest no such thing happened. Other than internal organs, I would be hard pressed to provide a reason for the killer taking rings except to make it appear (lamely) as if robbery was a motive-- or perhaps to present as a gift to some other down-and-outer down the road (I don't believe Jack murdered every potential victim with whom he came in contact) More likely they were removed by some local before the arrival of police, with the mistaken belief they were worth something-- this, of course, if the rings indeed existed and were removed post mortem.

[Ben]

Other than internal organs, I would be hard pressed to provide a reason for the killer taking rings except to make it appear (lamely) as if robbery was a motive

Hi LadyG,

Why would robbery be a lame motive for removing the rings? Lame motive for murdering Chapman, of course, but he could easily have removed any rings (and/or any money she may have had) for that purpose. If "some local" harboured the mistaken belief that the rings may be worth something, the same could easily be true of the murderer.

Best regards,
Ben

[LadyG]

Greetings. The referenced 'lame motive' would have been, in my opinion, a chuckle on the ripper's part, a red herring-- if indeed the rings existed at all. I have a long-held belief in the class of society to which the murderer belonged, and based on that, a few cheap trinkets pocketed from some 'short-heeled wench' as the old saying goes would hold no interest to him, monetarily. Besides, one would need only subdue a victim for the sake of robbery, no need for anyone to have guts displaced. Just a thought.

[Ben]

Hi again, LadyG.

I have a long-held belief in the class of society to which the murderer belonged, and based on that

But if remove that preconception as to class from the equation, we're left with a potentially more simple explanation for the apparent "wrenching off" of Chapman's rings, the evident sifting through of her belongings (discarding the totally valueless items in the process), and the absence of any money found on any victim: that the ripper - an individual who belonged to the same class as the victims, for whom the additional coin or ring would be an altogether more precious commodity - pocketted them himself.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that robbery was the primary motivation, far from it, but it's possible that the pilfering of shiny objects was an afterthought.

All the best,
Ben

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Chapman's missing (presumably stolen) rings is a real thing that happened as far as I know, going by the doctor's examination of the marks on her finger. And if that's true, I think Jack stole them because he thought they were valuable. I don't believe for a second he was from the upper classes, but that's just my opinion. =]

[LadyG]

And a variety of opinion is a much appreciated commodity!

[lovejoy]

rings are evidence

some interesting points added to my thread he did rob victims i agree and there were earlier victims who werent cut up from the low classes hmnn living amongst them yes but doesnt mean he wasnt a dropout of society slumming it but defitnitely needed to steal and living a low life [ i added that point as profiling would fit this type of guy and there was theft commitend ] still nobody on here which surprises me because i assume this site can help me has so far told me if rings found at any suspects premises after there demises the rings were brass but if found connected to your suspect they would be another small piece to tie them in especially if a better description of them were found somehowlike they were purchased recently prior to death any how i will keep my thinking cap on and hope for some assistance colleagues thank you for help soo far

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Lovejoy,

Would you happen to have a description as to what the rings looked like?

Such as marks or design that would make the rings stand out.

Jack may have taken the rings as souvenir from his kill, and he may have never pawn them for money.

He probably gave them to a girl friend; killers do that so they can gloat over them.

Now if jack did not give them away, he would have stored them away, hidden some place in his residence, behind a wall perhaps.

Then after his death, perhaps weeks passed and people moved into where he used to live, they may have found the hidden treasure and not knowing they belonged to the victims, they either kept them or threw them out.

Or the building was condemned and destroyed with all of his treasure, still buried in all that debris to this day.

BW