A throw in the dark

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, Sam, the 'Horn of Plenty'. From the OB it appears that the pub only came into being in 1847, and is most often described as on Crispin street, but sometimes as on Dorset.

The Horn of Plenty was the building shaded in green below, I believe:



As you can see, it was on the "cusp" of Dorset and Crispin Streets. For reference, #39 Dorset Street is shown in pink, with the next two premises East of it numbered to show where the sequence was headed.

[Robert]

Hi Gareth and AP

Wedgwood's premises in 1841 were at 5, 6 and 7 Crispin St. The Viper's essay on pubs lists the H of P at No. 5 Crispin St.

http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pubsv.html

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for the link, Rob - it seems that at least part of Wedgwood's premises did in fact occupy the future Horn of Plenty, therefore. I've just looked up a copy of the 1890 Goad map, and the building I coloured green above - the Horn of Plenty - is indeed shown as 5, Crispin Street, and labelled "PH" for public house. Interestingly, Nos 6 and 7 Crispin Street are labelled "Crockery" in that same 1890 Goad map - I wonder if those "Crockery" premises still stocked Wedgwood by then?

[Robert]

May have done, Gareth, though there was a danger that someone buying a plate might have had no money left over for the grub to go on it.

There was an 1826 newspaper item recording dissolution of partnership between Wedgewood and two men called Phillips. Wedgewood seems to have stayed on, and seems to have owned the other two properties :

[no title] MS 11936/529/1128309 11 August 1831

Contents:
Insured: Thomas Wedgewood, 40 Dorset Street, Spital Fields, dealer in china, glass and earthenware, and Sarah Bray
Other property or occupiers: 5 and 6 Crispin Street (tailor; dealer in potatoes)

However, this would make 40 Dorset St number 7 Crispin St, instead of number 5.

[Sam Flynn]

However, this would make 40 Dorset St number 7 Crispin St, instead of number 5.

...maybe the tailor worked out of the upper floor of number 5, Rob, with his entrance and perhaps his windows opening up onto Crispin Street.

Whichever way we cut it, it strikes me that the most logical location for a #40 Dorset Street was on the corner with Crispin Street, as it stood next door and West of number 39, and at least the numbers incremented as one went West (at least, such was the case towards the latter half of the century).

[Robert]

Gareth, yes, there's no problem there.

I think RJ Palmer once found little pockets of gentility in or around Dorset St, though I'm jiggered if I can remember where he found them.

[Cap'n Jack]

Robert & Sam
the following from an OB trial of 1846 leaves very little doubt about the situation of Wedgwood's studio and shop:

'JOSEPH RICHARDS . I live in Little Russel-street, Mile-end. I saw the defendant Phillips in the month of May—he gave me this bill, and told me to give it to Mr. Thomas Wedgwood, my master—I did so, as soon as he returned—this was on a Tuesday—Phillips came to me, opposite my master's door—I sa w several of these bills stuck about Mr. Wedge wood's neighbourhood—I counted sixteen pasted all within 200 yards of one another, in Whitechapel-road; some, opposite master's premises, the corner of Dorset-street, and Crispin-street, Spitalfields—Mr. Wedgwood was always living there—he was not out of the way, nor was Mr. Richardson—they both follow the same business, and deal together—there is an Edward Wedgwood Phillips in the China and glass trade—a great number of people stopped to read the bill.'

(Hope you remember, Sam, how you said a long time ago that locally posted bills of this nature would not attract much readership?)

[Sam Flynn]

Great find, AP. That clinches it! One of Wedgwood's premises indeed later became the Horn of Plenty.

Hope you remember, Sam, how you said a long time ago that locally posted bills of this nature would not attract much readership?

... that wasn't the precise thrust of my argument, but let's not go there - at least not on this thread, which has been a model of cooperation.

[Robert]

Well done, AP. I'm intrigued by that middle name "Wedgewood."

I think Edward Phillips was one of the Phillips ex-partners. Same name, anyhow.

[Suzi]

Gorgeous thread here boys from my bed of pain-
Just hope that studio was painted blue and white with the odd (!) cameo overtones!!!!
Can anyone help me with my new Forums thread 'Is it me?' re WATKINS before I collapse back into bed

suz x

[Robert]

Suzi, I hope you feel better soon.

Next time, not so many chocs.

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks Robert & Sam
slight problem being an OB 1832 reference to a public house making the corner of Dorset and Crispin.
Is it possible that Wedgwood was throwing pots for ale?

[Cap'n Jack]

A classified from The Thunderer of August 18th 1846:

'Glass, China and Earthenware - To the Trade - to be SOLD, by TENDER, the stock of EW Phillips, a bankrupt. To view the same, apply on the premises, 75 Bishopsgate street without. All tenders to be addressed to: Thomas Wedgwood, 5, 6 and 7 Crispin street, Spitalfields.'

[Robert]

Perhaps, AP. Probably no JTR mugs, though. Maybe some Jubilee ones.

[Robert]

It looks like Phillips shouldn't have split with Wedgewood....