Ripper tour

[DVV]

Ripper tours are part of Ripperology, and their origins may go back to 1888 (gatherings at the murders sites, people who rend their windows, ets).
So for those who are interested by the subject, I open this thread about their history and all kinds of related anecdotes (as the last one about Mary, provided by Philipp/George Hutchinson).
Who was the first official guide? Was there any controversy, etc? Some guides may rely one the C5 concept, while others may include non-canonicals sites...and so on...

Edit: one question: do you believe it is necassary to visit the site, and why?

[George Hutchinson]

Hi DVV

I'm afraid a high proportion of the guides are full of bull. They take people to the wrong sites, give out bizarre inaccuracies and spew forth ridiculous conspiracy theories. Mr and Mrs Buggins, having no prior knowledge of JTR, lap it all up and accept it because they know no different.

I maintain that every single guide I've walked past over the years - just often catching no more than a paragraph - has made at least one error from the snippet heard.

There was a podcast we did for Rippercast earlier this year about tour guiding. It's the episode THE TOUR GUIDE FROM HELL.

Bob Hinton might be your man for the historical tourism questions as he wrote an excellent paper on Dark Tourism which he kindly loaned me for a lecture at Surrey University in 2006.

Do I believe it's necessary to visit the site? Well, most tours don't go to Henriques Street or Durward Street because they are ten minutes walk from any other place worth stopping at. It helps to be there, but it's not vital so long as you have images of the place. Before the Ripper Conference last month I gave a Ripper tour at a company in Tennessee without them leaving their staff room. If you can go somewhere, then it's better because you are standing where it happened. That's not something peculiar to Ripper tourism; that can go for anything. For example - wouldn't we all like to stand in the middle of Stonehenge and not have to see it from behind a fence?

PHILIP

[Celesta]

A question for Philip and Rob: In your book The London of Jack the Ripper, Then and Now, you all wrote:

"That side of Chamber Street, however, remains to this day a very dark, damp and highly foreboding stretch, even on a bright summer's day. It is probably the most unsettling Ripper-related location of all." pp. 180-181.

I wondered if this site was on any of the tours, and, if so, what the reactions of your customers are to it. It occurred to me that it might be a bit off the beaten path and you seem to confirm that by your last post.

In regards to David's post about early Ripper tourism, I noted that the when PC Pennett discovered the Pinchin street torso that he refrained from using his whistle because he didn't want to draw a crowd, an early attempt to thward Ripper sightseeing.

[John Bennett]

A question for Philip and Rob: In your book The London of Jack the Ripper, Then and Now, you all wrote:

"That side of Chamber Street, however, remains to this day a very dark, damp and highly foreboding stretch, even on a bright summer's day. It is probably the most unsettling Ripper-related location of all." pp. 180-181.

I wondered if this site was on any of the tours, and, if so, what the reactions of your customers are to it. It occurred to me that it might be a bit off the beaten path and you seem to confirm that by your last post.

Just thought I'd pop in here. John Pope De Locksley goes to Chamber Street - he may, however, be the only one.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Just as a matter of interest how many JtR tours go on in Whitechapel at any one time?

And how many tourists would that involve?

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

I'm afraid a high proportion of the guides are full of bull. They take people to the wrong sites, give out bizarre inaccuracies and spew forth ridiculous conspiracy theories. Mr and Mrs Buggins, having no prior knowledge of JTR, lap it all up and accept it because they know no different.

Hi Philip,
I have no doubt about. It must be just like Ripper literature, with the worst and the best.
One of your competitors, on his website, flatly claims that the murderer have five victims. Quite a bad beginning. Guides should warn people that the problem is perhaps not that much simple.
I enjoy your slogan "Do it loudly in front of a crowd!"
Is it a reaction against some controversy?

[John Bennett]

Getting an overall history of the Whitechapel Murders (+ walking about) in 1hr 45m is no mean feat.

However, as I'm sure Philip will agree, there's no excuse for fibbing. The facts themselves make for interesting listening, especially if you're standing where it happened and you have a captive (and obviously curious) audience.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi all.

Linda - looks like John answered first. I had no idea Mr Pope went to Chamber Street. He probably tells people it's Millers Court, though. I'm amazed he's even HEARD of Frances Coles. It's peripheral to the case and not on any route you could cover in the short time the tours take, so it's very scarce. The actual street is no more dodgy than anywhere else, it just looks it.

John - exactly. If you ain't got the time, don't say the crime (crime, in this case, being telling porkys).

Simon - Bob Hinton, again, is the man for this. I think when he did his survey a few years back there were about 60 guides that took Ripper tours and about a dozen running every night. Tonight I saw three other groups, which is about usual. Numbers vary hugely. The company John and I work for only book in advance and limit numbers so we can get them into the proper places and alleys (typically 35-40). Some of them are chancers who have half a dozen people with them. Some of them are just after the cash and take all comers, lessening the experience by allowing 100 people to a group. I'd guess the average is probably about 30 to a group. You're probably looking in the region of 400 people every night of the week. Ripper tourism is one of the biggest tour industries in London, after going round The Tower with the Yeoman Warders.

DVV - my signature is just my version of those smutty T-shirts and bumper stickers from years ago, making a double entendre out of the phrase 'do it'. The 'it', of course, means 'their job' but then you leave it open to be misunderstood and presume that 'it' is hanky-panky. Hence the doing it loudly in front of a crowd. As a tour guide, you throw your voice so everyone in the group can hear you... or maybe you have wild, exhibitionist sex in front of them.

PHILIP

[Celesta]

Hi Philip,

Thanks. I saw John's response. I figured it was off your usual turf.

Best,

Linda

[Bulldog]

Hi Philip,

This is something that I’ve been wondering about for some time: Do you find that people who haven’t signed up for your walk and obviously haven’t paid are following along and getting the tour for free? If so, what can you do about them since the walking tours operate on public property?

I imagine that this might be a problem everywhere - not just in London.

Bulldog

[John Bennett]

Hi Philip,

Thanks. I saw John's response. I figured it was off your usual turf.

Best,

Linda

Here's a quote from DeLocksley's website:

"You will visit the place of the last victim Francis Cole's Feb 1891, then Stride 1888(same spot), Tabram 1888 and Mackenzi 1889. London Horror Tours is the only Jack the Ripper walk to visit these murder victims."

Make of it what ye will....

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Bulldog. No, it doesn't happen. Often (rare in London, though; more in my home town) people will hang around and listen to one location's story and then go on their way. Some guides have an issue with that but I think it's more trouble than it's worth to start complaining that they need to pay. I have more issues with people suddenly videoing the whole thing without even asking.

I've not been aware of ever having someone latch onto the group doing a Ripper tour (once, actually, but she arrived right at the start and stayed with a private booking and I assumed she was with them but it turns out she had just joined on, which I found out when she started asking rather odd questions (out of context) at the end of the tour). Doing my tours in Surrey I have people latch on about two or three times a year and after two stories I tell them they have to pay. Only once has someone stayed on and caused trouble, but he was one of the town drunks and I ended up calling the police because he was being disruptive.

PHILIP

[claire]

A little off-topic (or, rather, to the side of it), but does anyone know of, or can recommend, anyone who does custom tours for small groups of, say 3 or 4 people? I'm actually a Londoner myself, but the places I want to see I know little about; whenever I've been on walkabouts with a tour guide I've learned more than I could read in a week (well, with the several good ones I've been lucky enough to have), and so was wondering if this was possible in London. Any recommendations?

---
Statisticians do it using standard deviations...

[John Bennett]

A little off-topic (or, rather, to the side of it), but does anyone know of, or can recommend, anyone who does custom tours for small groups of, say 3 or 4 people? I'm actually a Londoner myself, but the places I want to see I know little about; whenever I've been on walkabouts with a tour guide I've learned more than I could read in a week (well, with the several good ones I've been lucky enough to have), and so was wondering if this was possible in London. Any recommendations?

---
Statisticians do it using standard deviations...

Is that Ripper tours particularly or generally around London? I've dropped you a PM, by the way.

[claire]

Hi John,

I was thinking along the lines of JtR specific, along with other events/places of interest of the mid-late VP. Have replied to your PM.