Alleyways and Larger Areas

[BLUE WIZZARD]

The English Gardener,

It was a Joke,

Chava was standing his/her ground on that Whore was a word of choice instead of Prostitute, so when he/she said prostitute I just reminded him/her of what he/she said about whore as being a word of choice. I hope Chava realized it was in joking only.

BW

[The English Gardener]

I like the way you write sir.

It was not only the people of whitechapel that considered themselves as unfortunates but the people of high society as well that called them Unfortunates because of their situation. I understand your point and I agree with it. but do you agree that it was unfortunate for them to have to be prostitutes?

BW

Thank you for your kind words.
I certainly agree that they were - in every respect - unfortunate. They lived a twighlight life in a twilight world which was the satellite of the economic boom of Victorian Britain, shining from its home in the City literally just across the road {that road being Bishopsgate}. Within the richest city in the world was the underclass so often represented by the East End. No carriage, servants or comforts for them, they eked out their lives by whatever means came to hand. Many were simply feckless. But given the chances that their lives in this Utopia afforded them, it could be argued that there was little point in them being otherwise. The Abyss that Jack London would describe in eloquent terms some years later wasn't one from whihc too many could even hope to climb out of. It wasn't {and this is probably the single most tragic factor} neccessarily even desperation which drove people to sell whatever they had {for these were people who saw little distinction between pawning their boots and providing a tupenny upright for whoever wanted it}. That this was the only way for anyone to have to live is probably the greatest tragedy of the Victorian Age. But his was the harsh reality of life for many. While the City and the West End enjoyed life around The Park and enjoyed the benefits that gave rise to the saying "To be born British is to win first prize in the lottery of life" the East End struggled in its uphill battle to even stay alive. "London Life And The London Poor" was a valiant attempt to appeal to the more fortunate citizens but for the wider part denial was the easier option. Denial that there was a problem, denial that these people were society's problem and a denial of what was actually happening to many of the women of the East End. This is how London lived. And, as Chava has succinctly pointed out, it was much easier on the sensitivities of polite society's "betters" to think of those who fell below acceptable levels of conduct as "Unfortunates". So much nicer word than "Prostitute". Incidentally, do you draw a distinction between "Prostitute" and "Whore", or are you engaging in some kind of lexicographical horseplay to which I'm not party?

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Sorry, I should have said 'whore'.

Thank you Chava that was more like you.

BW

[Chava]

Sorry, I should have said 'whore'.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

It was extremely unfortunate for them. However 'unfortunate' was a common euphemism for 'prostitute' in 19th Century England.

Sorry Chava but don't you mean "whores"?

BW

[Chava]

It was extremely unfortunate for them. However 'unfortunate' was a common euphemism for 'prostitute' in 19th Century England.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

But that's not even nearly the same as "They considered themselves as Unfortunates not Prostitutes." Believe me, you do something as a last resort with a much greater sense of the reality of your position. As a statement what you say has merit, for it shows an understanding of the motivations of many of the women in '80s Whitechapel who became prostitutes. But s a correction it gets a no no because it assumes that those women {or men} didn't consider themselves prostitutes. They did, as you correctly demonstrate.

I like the way you write sir.

It was not only the people of whitechapel that considered themselves as unfortunates but the people of high society as well that called them Unfortunates because of their situation. I understand your point and I agree with it. but do you agree that it was unfortunate for them to have to be prostitutes?

BW

[The English Gardener]

But that's not even nearly the same as "They considered themselves as Unfortunates not Prostitutes." Believe me, you do something as a last resort with a much greater sense of the reality of your position. As a statement what you say has merit, for it shows an understanding of the motivations of many of the women in '80s Whitechapel who became prostitutes. But s a correction it gets a no no because it assumes that those women {or men} didn't consider themselves prostitutes. They did, as you correctly demonstrate.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

It was to a society too polite- or ignorant of the sheer want of a living of any kind- to use words like "prostitute" to whom they were "unfortunates". They may have considered themselves unfortunate. They may have referred to themselves as "unfortunates". But that wasn't because they denied that they were prostitutes. They were, believe me, all too aware of their profession. The kind of semantic acrobatics you would have them perform aren't ones that they themselves would have the fainest clue about.

They were Unfortunates because they had really no choice but to take up the trade of Prostitution, due to the fact that either their husbands died or left them, and the husband being the only source of income for their survival. so unfortunately they became prostitutes. not a trade they were in before but after. When times get really tough even men would prostitute themselves. That kind of desperation I hope no one should have to experience.

BW

[The English Gardener]

Sam,

They considered themselves as Unfortunates not Prostitutes.

BW

It was to a society too polite- or ignorant of the sheer want of a living of any kind- to use words like "prostitute" to whom they were "unfortunates". They may have considered themselves unfortunate. They may have referred to themselves as "unfortunates". But that wasn't because they denied that they were prostitutes. They were, believe me, all too aware of their profession. The kind of semantic acrobatics you would have them perform aren't ones that they themselves would have the fainest clue about.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Don't say prostitutes, say "casual prostitutes" or "vagrants". You don't want to sound like a Ripperologist!

Sam,

They considered themselves as Unfortunates not Prostitutes.

BW

[Sam Flynn]

the most possible locations for a serial killers base of operations used the places that the victims bodies where found in to locate the most likely area JTR came from! Flower street Whitechapel & Near by Dean street! All the victims had lived within 50yrds of these two streets in 1887 coincidence???????

Coincidence seems fine to me, Jay - almost everybody who was nobody in the East End lived in that area at one time or another. The slums of Whitechapel boasted a huge population density, and easily 10,000 people lived within a 50-yard radius of Flower and Dean Street at any one time. Given the transient nature of the population, it follows that significantly more (myriads, certainly, if not hundreds of thousands) would have established some sort of residential connection with the area over a comparatively short period of time.

The only thing that might make me consider whether there was something more than coincidence at work would be if all the victims resided at precisely the same lodging-house at the time of their deaths. Even then, it would be hard to rule out coincidence, given the sheer number of dossers some lodging-houses were able to accommodate.

(PS: Flower & Dean Street was actually one street.)

[Jay Batsford]

Having looked at the data from a Geocrimonologist from texas state university who has a equation based on previous serial killer cases in the US and uses it to help the FBI locate the most possible locations for a serial killers base of operations used the places that the victims bodies where found in to locate the most likely area JTR came from! Flower street Whitechapel & Near by Dean street! All the victims had lived within 50yrds of these two streets in 1887 coincidence???????

[Jay Batsford]

In one of the Profiles i have read on his personality a Expert in pinpointing where serial killers live in relation to where they kill has estimated that he lived or lodged less then 100 yards from where he dropped the bloody apron scrap! evidence has shown that in 1887 all the suspects lived within this area of Whitechapel most of them must of had a passing association with one another and more then likely with JTR.

[Jay Batsford]

Its an interesting point to make! How many woman on his travels through Whitechapel did JTR mark as potential targets what criteria had to be met before he made the the choice ''Thats my next victim'' ? Through my research i have noticed that most of his victims where looking for there last punter at the time he engaged relations with them, and most of them where heavily under the influence of drink i think it was Eddowes her self that said in passing to another prostitute that she herself might become a victim of the Whitechapel killer?