Alleyways and Larger Areas

[Sam Flynn]

Whether it was Annies or the killers decision, by standing between the steps and fence,close to the wall, they were out of view of all the windows, possibly apart from the window on the stairs.

Indeed, Jon - however, my point is more to do with the threat posed by someone entering the yard via the passageway/back door that abutted directly onto Jack's "operating theatre". If, for example, Cadoche had lived at #29 rather than #27, then it wouldn't just have been Albert who'd have been caught with his pants down.

[Sam Flynn]

No, but its a fairly safe bet given what is known.

What is known, Jeff, is that at least three of them were doss-house dwellers who had no money to pay for their doss on the evenings of their deaths. It's by no means certain that they weren't simply begging or trying to scrounge a room, rather than actively prostituting themselves. A fourth potential victim (Stride) arguably didn't need her doss-money at all (she'd earned some earlier, by honest means) and may have been socialising with "boyfriends" - rather than clients - on the evening of her demise.

I'd agree with you that it's a fairly safe bet that one or other of them may have been prostituting themselves, but perhaps not all.

[Jon Guy]

If he'd had more control over the situation - or at least more sense - then he wouldn't have chosen to mutilate her so close to the back step.

Hi Sam

Whether it was Annies or the killers decision, by standing between the steps and fence,close to the wall, they were out of view of all the windows, possibly apart from the window on the stairs.

[Robert]

Let's not strain the sexual symbolism. You could just as well say that he was trying to be reborn.

[Jeff Leahy]

I'm not so sure that all modern prostitutes consider their job a laugh a minute, either, Blue - but your point is otherwise valid. Note, also, that it's by no means certain that all the victims were actively prostituting themselves on the nights/mornings they died either.

No, but its a fairly safe bet given what is known.

Pirate

P.S. While your discussing Hanbury Street do you, or anyone, know what was on the other side? I'd always presumed other gardens...but how close to the nearest Ally exit?

[Sam Flynn]

Hate to keep harping on this one point, but these women were not whores. Whores are women (or men) who have sex with a lot of people for the enjoyment; these women were driven into the profession of prostitution by financial hardship. It was their business; they did not do it for pleasure.

I'm not so sure that all modern prostitutes consider their job a laugh a minute, either, Blue - but your point is otherwise valid. Note, also, that it's by no means certain that all the victims were actively prostituting themselves on the nights/mornings they died either.

[bluecedar]

Hate to keep harping on this one point, but these women were not whores. Whores are women (or men) who have sex with a lot of people for the enjoyment; these women were driven into the profession of prostitution by financial hardship. It was their business; they did not do it for pleasure.

[Chava]

Kelly's room may have been small, but it was larger than the tight passageway that brought her to it, and it's where she led him. I wonder if it's possible that, as I said above, the victims choose themselves by the place they choose to take him. I'm not applying any culpability to these poor women, but I suspect that's how he chose who to kill. After all, he had a huge victim pool out there, and something took him to these women rather than other women. I'm thinking the conditions have to be absolutely right for him to kill. And that might explain why he went into the obviously dangerous--for him--dead-end that was the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street. His passion at that moment overrides his caution. But that passion is created by events and circumstances before the actual kill--which I believe is where intercourse begins in his rather unpleasant worldview. What happens before--what they say to him; they're leading him through tight, constricted areas into the 'uterus' is foreplay. I don't think he decides to kill until he gets into that space. This might explain the strange gaps between the killings. He went out looking, but no one between Chapman and Eddowes took him into exactly the right kind of place in exactly the right kind of circumstances. Nicholls is somewhat anachronistic in that she's not killed right in a larger area--sort of premature ejaculation. Stride, as you've pointed out, isn't killed in the broadest part of the yard. But there are still elements of this model in both killings. Eddowes, Chapman and Kelly exhibit all characteristics.

[Redsmith]

Hello, Natalie.

Just thinking out loud; but I would mention that very familiar things tend to be noticed only by their absence.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Dominic,
Although your point is perfectly reasonable,there are no references at all to any horse and cart being heard or seen at any of the murder scenes. There is a mention in one of some men seen saddling horses a little way away,but this was after the murder and at the time the body was found,if I remember correctly.

[Redsmith]

If a man driving a horse and cart tailed a woman into a yard, the horse and cart would: partly or wholly block her egress; partly or wholly obscure what was happening behind it; allow anyone standing on the vehicle to see over walls and perhaps even track the progress of a policeman on his beat. The presence of the horse would also provide an easily dismissed licit source for any sound of scuffling etc.

[Sam Flynn]

One he could scale without equipment....and if truly cornered could likely crash through.

If he'd had more control over the situation - or at least more sense - then he wouldn't have chosen to mutilate her so close to the back step. Whether he could have crashed through the fence or not, the fact remains that anyone coming through the back door would have been almost on top of him.

Hi Sam,

I thought it fair to differentiate between a wall of wood that is scalable, to a wall of brick or stone, that opposite Marys window, is 2 stories tall, and a dead end with stone walls to the right. One he could scale without equipment....and if truly cornered could likely crash through.

Your point is fair though, the yard at Hanbury was a box with a single street access.

All the best Sam.

[Sam Flynn]

I neglected to mention that in all of the first 4 Canonical murders, the killer had more than one way out.... the yard at Hanbury backed on to many yards once the fence was scaled

Sure, "once the fence was scaled" - but isn't that rather stretching a point, Mike? If anyone had emerged from that passageway into the yard, Annie's killer was as good as cornered.

I neglected to mention that in all of the first 4 Canonical murders, the killer had more than one way out. Bucks Row was open ended, the yard at Hanbury backed on to many yards once the fence was scaled, Dutfields Yard had the gates and the side entrance to the club, plus a possible ladder exit at the back of the yard, Mitre Square was entered by three lanes or passages, one a carriageway, and then there is Millers Court, room 13. With one door and two windows leading to a single exit archway, narrow and 24-25 feet long, with him working with his back turned to both room exits.

Best regards all.