The closest they came?

[Guest]

Hi all,

Ive always liked the notion that Jack was well acquainted with Londons East End, not as a resident, but as a transient who frequented the area. As has been posed, a "slummer", who had means to lure the women, and to move about, or change clothing, easily. This would have been activity that required no checking in and out of a room at night, or any kind of scrutiny or interaction with the loding house management or the guests.

I feel that the following story from our Casebook Suspects file is a very powerful tale, and one that is hard to imagine having purely benign explanations.

Did they almost have him?

Daily News, October 16th

"According to a Correspondent, the police are watching with great anxiety a house in the East-end which is strongly suspected to have been the actual lodging, or house made use of by someone connected with the East-end murders. Statement made by the neighbours in the district point to the fact that the landlady had a lodger, who since Sunday morning of the last Whitechapel murder has been missing. The lodger, it is stated, returned home early on the Sunday morning, and the landlady was disturbed by his moving about. She got up very early, and noticed that her lodger had changed some of his clothes. He told her he was going away for a little time, and asked her to wash his shirt which he had taken off, and get it ready for him by the time he came back. As he had been in the habit of going away now and then, she did not think much at the time, and soon afterwards he went out. On looking at his shirt she was astonished to find the wristbands and part of the sleeves saturated with blood. The appearance struck her as very strange, and when she heard of the murders here suspicions were aroused. Acting on the advise of some neighbours, she gave information to the police and showed them the bloodstained shirt. They took possession of it, and obtained from her a full description of her missing lodger. During the last fortnight she has been under the impression that he would return, and was sanguine that he would probably come back on Saturday or Sunday night, or perhaps Monday evening. The general opinion, however, among the neighbours is that he will never return. On finding out the house and visiting it, a reporter found it was tenanted by a stout, middle-aged German woman, who speaks very bad English, and who was not inclined to give much information further than the fact that her lodger had not returned yet, and she could not say where he had gone or when he would be back. The neighbours state that ever since the information has been given two detectives and two policemen have been in the house day and night. The house is approached by a court, and as there are alleys running through into different streets, there are different ways to approach and exit. It is believed from the information obtained concerning the lodgers former movements and his general appearance, together with the fact that numbers of people have seen this man about the neighbourhood, that the police have in their possession a series of important clues, and that his capture is only a question of time."

A well researched theory by some of the brightest stars in Ripperology wraps around this story, and presents what is compelling theorizing. Did they almost have him?

Is the lapse at October's end of his killing streak due to having to leave town for a bit, or find suitable new lodging in the area?

Any thoughts?
My best regards to all.

[Limehouse]

The thing that most bothers me about this story is, at the height of the killings, this man simply handing over a blood-covered shirt to be washed by his landlady.

[perrymason]

Hi Limehouse,

That is certainly an issue, I agree with you, but I dont think that single fact diminishes the possibilities here. In fact after I read your post I considered that if he had no intention of returning when he gave her the shirt to wash and left, he might have used the shirt, and the knowledge that his landlady would be suspicious, as a way to pre-occupy the police for a few days. If she reports the incident, and they watch the house, which they did...then they are not as closely watching trains and boats going out for one, or perhaps not looking for someone who has checked into other local lodgings.

Also the landlady wasnt very forthcoming with details apparently, and did have language obstacles, ..he may have thought that she wouldnt be the type to be nosy, or the language barrier might have caused her to hesitate about coming forward.

Might he have done it without thinking the action through....or was he coming down the stairs with a shirt scrunched up to drop off in some alley....like an apron section, bumped into her, and hastily offered the shirt for laundry... like taking it to her was the plan all along.

The location, the hours, the bloodstained shirt, the disappearance, ....just on the surface, it's enough to make one wonder, let alone some of the interesting theories surrounding this stranger. I also wonder if this could be Jack, or maybe a guy who killed for the first time on Berner St that night. Not someone who practices secrecy and stealth....and also when he dropped the shirt off, Mrs Landlady wouldnt have yet known of the murder a street or two away.

Its troublesome, but not without some potentially simple explanations.

Cheers Limehouse.

[Ben]

Hi Mike,

I considered that if he had no intention of returning when he gave her the shirt to wash and left, he might have used the shirt, and the knowledge that his landlady would be suspicious, as a way to pre-occupy the police for a few days.

But wouldn't it have been preferable to simply leave without leaving a trail at all, least of all a bloody one?

Another concern I have with the article is the nature of the source; it wasn't the landlady herself, but rather a correspondent reporting the comments of "the neighbours in the district", making it second hand hearsay at best. If the landlady wasn't the original source, or if the original tale had gained many embellishents in the telling and re-telling, it's hardly surprising that she was "not inclined to give much information". Not inclined, and possibly unable.

I'm afraid I can't agree with your observation that; "This would have been activity that required no checking in and out of a room at night, or any kind of scrutiny or interaction with the loding house management or the guests". If this lodger even existed, it is quite clear that he was under scrutiny, which wouldn't have been possible if the lodger was one of 500 men in a larger doss house, coming and going at all hours of the night.

Best regards,
Ben

[Monty]

A dissertation

Gavin Bromleys dissertation Mrs Kruers lodger is a interesting read regarding this topic.

[diana]

If Only

Oh if only we had the shirt -- we could see if the DNA matched the victim's descendants.

[Limehouse]

Hi Limehouse,

That is certainly an issue, I agree with you, but I dont think that single fact diminishes the possibilities here. In fact after I read your post I considered that if he had no intention of returning when he gave her the shirt to wash and left, he might have used the shirt, and the knowledge that his landlady would be suspicious, as a way to pre-occupy the police for a few days. If she reports the incident, and they watch the house, which they did...then they are not as closely watching trains and boats going out for one, or perhaps not looking for someone who has checked into other local lodgings.

Also the landlady wasnt very forthcoming with details apparently, and did have language obstacles, ..he may have thought that she wouldnt be the type to be nosy, or the language barrier might have caused her to hesitate about coming forward.

Might he have done it without thinking the action through....or was he coming down the stairs with a shirt scrunched up to drop off in some alley....like an apron section, bumped into her, and hastily offered the shirt for laundry... like taking it to her was the plan all along.

The location, the hours, the bloodstained shirt, the disappearance, ....just on the surface, it's enough to make one wonder, let alone some of the interesting theories surrounding this stranger. I also wonder if this could be Jack, or maybe a guy who killed for the first time on Berner St that night. Not someone who practices secrecy and stealth....and also when he dropped the shirt off, Mrs Landlady wouldnt have yet known of the murder a street or two away.

Its troublesome, but not without some potentially simple explanations.

Cheers Limehouse.

Hi Perry,

Some very good points. However, another thing that bothers me is the fact that this surveillance, intended to capture the suspect when he returned, was made so public. So public in fact, that the whole operation was reported in the newspapers! The sale of daily papers increased dramatically as a result of the murders and I can hardly believe the police would have made public their surveillance of this property.

However, setting aside my reservations, it is the type of story that makes you think that, if true, the lodger could well have been a strong candidate for Jack. It some ways though, it just sounds too much like those stories of consumptive vetinary students lodging with rich old ladies, lodgers who left behind blood-stained knives/boots/bags, and insane medical students pacing up and down lonely attics.

[c.d.]

I have to admit that this story goes by me completely. If true, then why wasn't the landlady and/or some of the borders at the time asked to look at suspects? I am thinking in particular of Tumblety.

c.d.

[perrymason]

I have to admit that this story goes by me completely. If true, then why wasn't the landlady and/or some of the borders at the time asked to look at suspects? I am thinking in particular of Tumblety.

c.d.

Hi cd,

Youre of course not the only one who would think of him....better minds than mine have already, but I think this story takes on more meaning, if thats the right word, in retrospect, because if we are to believe some other documents, the Ripper was institutionalized and never actually identified by anyone. The witness declined, whether he recognized him or not, so we will never know whether Jack was caught by that story. I think witnesses might have been somewhat of a catch 22 at that time....they needed witnesses for everything, but that meant they had to listen to all the false witness stories too.

Im not sure whether I think this man was Jack, or just Liz's killer maybe,...but I am sure that a man acting oddly in the middle of the night with a shirt that has blood soaked cuffs, on the night 2 women are killed with knives,....and then disappears....is worth wondering about.

Thanks for the mention on the dissertation Monty...Ill have a gander.

Best regards fellas...gals.


edit.......On Tumblety specifically, they really didnt have him in custody long it seems, and he did flee while on bail, so an ID might have been a logistics and organization thing. Odd though that you did suggest it....because they had him a few weeks after this and perhaps could have set up a lineup. Its a good question.

Cheers

[Supe]

Hi all,

I would just like to iterate Monty's suggestion that before getting involved in a serious discussion that people read Gavin Bromley's article Mrs. Kuer’s Lodger that first appeared in Ripperologist 81 (July 2007) available in the dissertations section of Casebook and his followup Is there an Echo around here? An Addendum to Mrs Kuers Lodger that also first appeared in Ripperologist and which is also available on Casebook.

As ever, Gavin slices, dices and and otherwise dissects the topic in his very thorough manner.

Don.

[c.d.]

Hi Michael,

I just don't have a lot of faith in the whole Lodger story in general. If true, at the very least, the police would have gotten a description from the woman as well as the boarders. If the police had any real belief in the story, they would have brought in the woman to identify promising suspects. As for Tumblety, if her description was of a 55 year old tall American with a huge mustache, then they would have held him until she could make an identification even if they had to charge him with tearing the tag off a mattress. I have always believed that there was more to his arrest than we know.

c.d.

[perrymason]

Hi folks,

I dont know if youve read the dissertation that Monty and Don suggested cd, but I think it should be read as a cautionary tale by anyone studying these crimes. Mrs Kuer's Lodger is a great piece of work by Gavin Bromley, my hat is off to him, some real fine "charting" I would say, and he offers variations that are all well thought through and plausible. Ill read the second one shortly.

On that "charting" mention.....if I knew Id be collecting images and articles, and maps, and snippets of discussions, various forms of research and related materials such as the Victorian Era itself, Fenians, admittedly yes...FreeMasons.., daggers and photo plates and Swedish history, Lunar Cycles and Birth and Death data, and The Dock Fires, and the Parnell Commission and Victoria Regina,....ad infinitum.....I would have crossed referenced everything. Mutltiple sources, perspectives...they are only useful when applied like Gavin did.

Is it possible to do this retroactively.....I mean has anyone sifted though potentially a gig of data to straighten it out after the fact? Can it be done.....he says hoping the answer is definately not...I should just be content being a sloppy amateur.

My best regards all.