Schoolyard Bullies

[diana]

I commented on this in another thread and then decided to move it and make a thread about it.

I did some reading on the subject of schoolyard bullies this morning and discovered that
1. They do not have low self esteem.
2. 60% of males who engage in this behavior go on to commit at least one crime.
3. They are very much into controlling others and enjoy that sense of absolute control over another human being.

I would love to know if there is any correlation between this kind of behavior and later becoming an SK.

I grew up in the mid 20th century and at that time it was ignored. As I stated on the other thread, I had some very unpleasant experiences as a child. I'm assuming that was pretty much the climate in the 19th century as well. Even if Jack never went to school, he may have abused other children in whatever environment he found himself.

[John Bennett]

When I was teaching in my old school, I was at a staff meeting where somebody came in from the borough to talk about bad behaviour in pupils. Much of the thrust of her presentation was about the low self-esteem of pupils with behaviour problems.

One of the more outspoken members of staff piped up and said:
"I don't think its got anything to do with LOW self-esteem, it more to do with TOO MUCH bloody self-esteem". And he had a point.

As it happens, none of the pupils I can remember in this category went on to be serial killers, but I can say that there was a rapist/kidnapper, one murderer and several others who went on to serve at Her Majesty's pleasure for various violent crimes (usually gang-related).

Sad but true.

[diana]

Makes You Wonder . . .

Makes you wonder what Jack was like as a kid doesn't it.

[Limehouse]

It's an interesting question to pose Diana but I think I have often read, in relation to serial killers, that they are sometimes the victims of bullying and tend to be loners who do not mix a great deal and who are often very attached to their mothers. i know this sounds a lot like stereotyping but I am thinking of Reginald Christie, Peter Kurten and Peter Sutcliffe to name a few.

Bullies are loathsome creatures. Evidence does seem to suggest that some bullies have, at some time, been the victim of bulkying themselves but I have found that bullies are very often control freaks who enjoy the fear they see in their victims. I think this is often true of adult male bullies who intimidate their wives and children and adult female bullies who intimidate and bully their neighbours.

[George Hutchinson]

Do they also go to live in Guernsey?

PHILIP

[Natalie Severn]

Do they also go to live in Guernsey?

PHILIP

No they were called Georgie Porgie Pudding and Pie!

[kittyhawk]

I think few people who comes from an alright home environment and has caring parents will become a bullies or serial killers.Strikingly often both kinds come from broken or dysfunctional homes and/or are disturbed mentally in one way or another.Is bullying a sign of true,healthy self-esteem or just compensating for a wrecked childhood where you always felt ignored by your parents and peers-until you become a bully and finally got some attention and "respect"?
I vote for the latter myself,having seen people with bullying tendencies in my life.

People need attention from others.They want to be seen.At any cost.If there´s no positive way of gaining attention,they will go for the negative.

[joelhall]

i go along with them not having low self esteem, and dont believe its for attention. kevs just like to impress by looking like the baddest boy they can. nothing more than competing alphas.

[Celesta]

Diana,

I, too, grew up in the mid-twentieth century and I, too, endured some very rough experiences with these so-called victims of low self-esteem. Bullying was indeed ignored. In fact, in those days, if anything was made of it at all, the victim was apt to be blamed for what was happening to them. They might even be punished for standing up for themselves, when they could no longer tolerate what was happening to them. Let's not forget that bullies may travel in packs, which compounds the misery for the victim. Maybe it's not good to generalize, but, in my experience, low self-esteem doesn't seem to be a common trait among a lot bullies. Many of the bullies I encountered and, have observed since, do exactly as you suggest. They are into control, into forcing others to conform to their way of doing things, they fear those who are different, and they delight in inflicting pain and inspiring fear. If they didn't enjoy it, they wouldn't be doing it, with some exceptions.

While some of them may be from broken or troubled homes, a number of them aren't. A number of them are part of the "in-crowd." Just as John said, a lot of bullies suffer from "too much bloody self-esteem."

Another misconception about bullies is that they are cowards. They're anything but cowards. Standing up to them might get a person respect or it might get a person beaten to a pulp. I would never tell a kid to stand up to a bully until I had seen the bully in person and had carefully assessed the situation.

I would never tell a kid "Oh, they're just teasing you because they like you." Rubbish! Any kid knows when they're suffering abuse. It doesn't help a bit when the adults in a kid's life duck the issue.

Was JtR a victim of bullying? One could argue either way.

Best,

Cel

[Howard Brown]

Its very likely that most serial killers were bullied,rather than doing the bullying....or at least,the aspect of whether one bullies or is bullied is essentially not that much of a noticable factor in the scheme of things. At least,thats been the impression I get from reading about 'em.

Lucas,Gacy,Berkowitz,Rifkin,Chikatilo,Ramirez,Heid nik,Dahmer,Baumeister,...all were dorky,soft n' squishy types,even 6'9" Ed Kemper was passive ...and thats just a few. I'm sure others can name an equal number.

Same with them there spree killers. Most,like Speck,the Columbine H.S. punks,the Australian guy a few years ago,Martin somethingortheother...Colin Ferguson,etc...most of these people were whipped on rather than doing the whipping.

However,its also very possible that some of those we know or presume to have been bullied, may well have been not averse to using a whip or implementing torture towards women/ a woman as part of some deviant sexual "thrill". Their bullying is done within a controlled environment and not openly like in a playground.

[The Good Michael]

Howard,

I used to protect kids against the bullies. Usually that diffused things rather than creating a violent situation... usually, I said. The victims were typically just the average Joe who didn't want his a** kicked. I did have one acquaintance who was bullied that ended up killing someone and went to prison, but most just grew up and went on to regular lives, whatever that means.

Cheers,

Mike

[Mutt]

My two cents,

I have always associated young bullies with grown up armed robbers and the guys that go into a bars to drink and develop their beer muscles, then start a beef with the other patrons.

What I have read indicates that serial killers are more often than not a different animal. Low self esteem and behavioral problems at young ages. Displaying the killers 'triad' of bed wetting, animal torture, and fire starting at an early age.

[Stephen Thomas]

A friend of mine went to a school reunion and was surprised to find that the school bullies were now all policemen.