Prostitutes complaints

[Normy]

Hiya all
Is there any kind of collection of recorded complaints by prostitues in the Whitechapel area made during around the Ripper time period?


Thanks

[Sam Flynn]

If by complaints you mean "grievances", then probably not, Norm - or at least none that have survived - as far as I know.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Sam

I may be mistaken with my understanding of the concept of "Leather Apron", but wasn`t there early doors in the series a finger pointed at someone known as "Leather Apron" ( possibly someone other than Pizer) who threatened the girls of the area ?

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed so, Jon - however, we know of Leather Apron, not because he was on a list such as Normy describes, but primarily because his story was carried in the newspapers (and "immortalised" in subsequent Ripper books). What Normy's ideal would be - I think - is the survival of some sort of "complaints book" where all and any grievances made to the police were recorded. If only we had such a thing!

[Normy]

Hi Sam
Yes that's what I was driving at.
No chance there might be an old book of complaints registered in any of the Whitechapel police stations lying covered in dust. Just waiting to surface and full of descriptions of troublemakers etc?

Shame!

Cheers anyway.

Normy

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Normy!

Couldn't help being a cynic here;

Thinking about MJK's dual personality (Utmost friendly while sober/Quarrelsome and violent while drunk), if those records existed, she wouldn't be the victim-thread queen! (Though she lived only about four years in London... )

All the best
Jukka

[Normy]

Hi j.r-ahde
Yeah but she might have had a whole volume dedicated to her!
Oh if only, the insight!

Cheers

[fido]

A most important prostitutes' complaint, traditionally evaded by those who are desperate to avoid looking seriously at the Leather Apron/John Pizer problem, comes in the Echo of 26th Septermber. This states that "Inspector Reid, Detective Sergeant Enright, Sergeant Goadby [sic] and other officers then worked upon a slight clue given them by 'Pearly Poll'. It was not thought much of at the time; but from what was gleaned from her and other statements given by Elizabeth Allen and Eliza Cooper of 35 Dorset Street, Spitalfields [Crossingham's] certain of the authorities have cause to suspect a man actrually living not far from Buck's Row. At present, however, there is only suspicion against him."
Since it was early prostitutes' reports of a man who threatened them that led to the concentrated search for Leather Apron, this is evidently that early information. It matches another subsequent report in the Illustrated police Gazette (if memory serves me aright) that another prostitute when interviewed (who may have been One-Armed Liz) said the girls all suspected a man who ha occasionally threatened them on the streets.
But the fascinating thing about these reports is that they all describe the suspicion still lingering AFTER Pizer had been supposedly identified as Leather Apron and positively cleared. Those who insist that Pizer definitely was Leather Apron avoid comment on the press reports that (a) Sergeant Thick told the press before the inquest that he was "almost certain" Pizer was Leather Apron, only strenghtening his testimony (in fairly familiar police manner) when evidence at a courtroom demanded something positive. (b) Pizer said he had never heard he was called Leather Apron until Thick told him. (c) Pizer's friends and neighbours told the press he was not known as Leather Apron.
All the best,
Martin F

[Normy]

Hi Martin
A please to converse.
That's very interesting, thanks for that input. Makes you wonder what the Prostitutes knew and who they suspected!

Cheers again.

Normy

[Chris]

Those who insist that Pizer definitely was Leather Apron avoid comment on the press reports that (a) Sergeant Thick told the press before the inquest that he was "almost certain" Pizer was Leather Apron, only strenghtening his testimony (in fairly familiar police manner) when evidence at a courtroom demanded something positive. (b) Pizer said he had never heard he was called Leather Apron until Thick told him. (c) Pizer's friends and neighbours told the press he was not known as Leather Apron.

On point (a), perhaps there are similar reports elsewhere, but I know only of the Star report on 11 September, which says:
"Sergeant Thicke, who is an officer of high reputation, and who knows, perhaps, more of the East-end and its rough denizens than any other man in the force, says almost positively that Piser is "Leather Apron.""

The slight uncertainty implied by this newspaper report obviously has to be set against Thick's inquest testimony, in which states unequivocally that Pizer was known as "Leather Apron".

It's also not quite true to say that he strengthened his testimony only at the inquest. For example, the Times on 12 September reported:
"The friends of Pizer stoutly denied that he was known by that name; but on the other hand Sergeant Thicke, who has an intimate knowledge of the neighbourhood in which the murder was committed, affirms that he knew Pizer well by sight, and always knew him by the nickname spoken of."