Ed Glinert's east end book big revelation?

[Krinoid]

Wait a minute read closely

Bucks Row/Durwood Street - site of the first murder is 2,000 cubits from Wellclose Square (which itself is 2,000 cubits from the centre of London)
Dorset Street - the location of the last murder (Mary Kelly) and the addresses of each of the victims (all of whom lived in that neighbourhood) is 2,000 cubits from both Wellclose Square and Bucks Row/Durwood Street.

Taken together these three places form a triangle over the East End.
The other murder sites - Hanbury Street (Mary Anne Chapman), Berner Street (Liz Stride) and Mitre Square (Catherine Eddowes) all stand 1,600 cubits from each other (another length enshrined in Masonic and biblical lore - corresponding to the size of the outer court of the Masons' idealised temple). These three sites form a smaller triangle. Placed together these two shapes form a twisted image of the Star of David/Seal of Solomon. It's almost certainly coincidence.

[Krinoid]

It does not look like Colin has used the complete information, wher eis wellclose square on the map for example and did he use Dorset street?

[m_w_r]

It does not look like Colin has used the complete information...

Probably a good job Colin isn't around to hear you say that!... Wellclose Square is, as Glinert's solution implies, the southernmost point on the Kelly-Nichols-Wellclose triangle (the larger of the two on the diagram). It's south of the east-west railway line, if that helps.

Regards,

Mark

[Krinoid]

well,not what I expected but there are 2 triangles though and as it says a very very "twisted" kind of star of david.

[claire]

Personally I find Wellclose-square pretty interesting. I don't know if it has links to the case, but the place is teeming with fascinating incidents. Seconds from MJK's old digs on Breezer's-hill, too.

[joelhall]

I can't imagine the killer trying to lure people to an exact spot. this is starting to suggest he was out with a measuring tape trying to find the right places.

Besides that the killings are different distances from each other than is suggested - I had the 1873 and 1884 OS maps right in front of me as I type.

I always smell a rat whenever anyone points to coincidences being part of Freemason rituals or 'belief' systems. Freemasons are always brought u with conspiracies in some form or other, but really there's no grounds for suspecting them other than them having 'secrets' (basically modes of recognition). If you're interested there is a wealth of information on freemason sites, online encyclopedias and various other websites. Better yet if you know any Freemasons, sit down and have a chat with them about their group - very few will have any problem with you asking about Freemasonry (as long as you don't come over as some sort of attacker).

The fact is the symbolism they use is to demonstrate morals, and the consequences of breaking codes. There is not an awful lot which really is secret about the fraternity, besides the modes of recognition and the fact that the meetings are of course private.

Any beliefs that they are some kind of sinister organisation who commit crimes and try and control events is really without any basis whatsoever, despite what the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

Of course if you're prepared to be dedicated you could always join the Freemasons and see what all the fuss is about!

My uncle, my grandmas two brothers, her dad were all masons - I think her father was actually master or secretary of his lodge at one point, and I'm getting in contact with the current secretary to see what things I can find out about his time in the masons for our family history (not to mention the cabinet with a huge silver cutlery set the lodge presented to my great-grandmother - we've still no idea why). I'm sure other members of the family are or were masons too but you never know until you ask.

[Krinoid]

Elisabeth Stride has links to the Swedish church on record near Wellclose square. see this entry

http://www.stgite.org.uk/swedishchurch.html

which also cross references the former danish church that was next to it linked by some ripperologists and Glinert as the church Prince Eddy was married in.Note its fromer name in pertains to the Legend.
More coinicindences abound-2 triangles, I can't tell if they are equilateral.

[Krinoid]

Does the Star of david imply freemasons-not to Wiki it doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David

[Krinoid]

Just to reiterate as no one saw it

[ And that Hawksmoor positioned all his churches in these measurements to significant sites especially Wellclose Square which was the apex of the whole scheme which also had a Danish church with involvement from Hawksmoor. He then later says this church was still known to the locals as "st savior's church" and would have been known to prince Eddy as it was danish and researchers did not look into this in JTR the final solution era. He said there was a chapel in the school there that marriages took place.The choice of a chapel on W.S. the place created according to biblical instruction and masonic lore would have approval from masons.

The St savior name mentioned above is true!

In the following year they rented the former DANISH CHURCH in Wellclose Square, which had been used by seafarers' missions but had lain empty for several years. It was named St Saviour and St Cross, an unusual dedication in England (though S. Croix and Santa Croce are common enough elsewhere in Europe). This reflected two new associations:[/QUOTE]

This adds to my above comment

[joelhall]

No but this does:

Taken together these three places form a triangle over the East End.
The other murder sites - Hanbury Street (Mary Anne Chapman), Berner Street (Liz Stride) and Mitre Square (Catherine Eddowes) all stand 1,600 cubits from each other (another length enshrined in Masonic and biblical lore - corresponding to the size of the outer court of the Masons' idealised temple).

[Krinoid]

Glinert was right

Hi Krinoid,

It may interest you to know that someone has drawn the lines between the murder sites, etc, to which you have referred in this thread. The image can be seen in "the other place", by following this link:

click here

The creator and copyright holder of the overlay image, Colin Roberts, does not post on this site at the moment.

I hope you find this interesting.

Regards,

Mark

Copyright holder???
Taking Glinert more serious now are we???
I think he owns the idea. And as for that other "site"you mention, they seem even less informed or interested, it was 2 triangles, and it is a twisted image of the star. He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

[m_w_r]

Copyright holder???
Taking Glinert more serious now are we???
I think he owns the idea. And as for that other "site"you mention, they seem even less informed or interested, it was 2 triangles, and it is a twisted image of the star. He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

Hi Krinoid,

I'm not taking the idea more seriously, but since Colin specified in his post that he considered himself the copyright holder of the overlay, I thought I'd bring this to your attention to save any embarrassing legal issues.

Logic dictates that if you join six things together in serial sets of three, you'll end up with two triangles. You'll notice that Colin has listed the dimensions of these triangles, and that neither of them is equilateral, which is another way of saying that Glinert's cubit-lengths aren't reliable. And your ability to see a "twisted image" of the star depends mainly, in my opinion, on [I]confirmation bias[/]. When I look at it, I end up wishing that, if there had been any geometric intentionality in the Whitechapel Murders, whoever was responsible had been a bit more adept with the compasses and straight-edge when they sat down to plan it out. Two congruent equilateral triangles, the second overlying the first in a regular way, would have been much more impressive, and much more in line with the ascribed purpose, than a big scalene one and a little scalene one, the second of which juts out from its partner on the west, but doesn't on the east.

So I'm not convinced, because, in my opinion, there's very little here to be convinced of. But I don't think we're ever going to agree on this point, so I'm backing out of this thread at this juncture.

Regards,

Mark

[The Good Michael]

Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

Sure, Von Junzt had a few good ideas, but he didn't mention it either.

Yours,

Mike

[bolo]

Hello Krinoid,

He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

well, this avenue of research has been pursued for years but the results are not really convincing in my opinion. Apart from the star of David, we had pentagrams, arrows and the vesica piscis (ancient religious symbol), and several researchers/authors postulated theories on their significance to occult lore or secret societies, with mixed succcess I might add.

Personally I try to keep an open mind about any area of Ripper research but in this case, I can't help but thinking that it is a red herring which leads to copious amounts of uncheckable facts and baseless allegations.

Acting high and mighty? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, more like.

Regards,

Boris

[JSchmidt]

Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

Sure, Von Junzt had a few good ideas, but he didn't mention it either.

Yours,

Mike

And it isn't in the dinner recommendations of the Comte d'Erlette either.