1981-- Ripper Project

[jmenges]

Hi all,

I've been trying to track down primary source material, including the telecast, from the 'Ripper Project' organized by Wichita State University and the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Science. Since I am in Kansas, I thought my best bet would be Wichita State University.

To my surprise, the University no longer holds any of this material and does not even possess a copy of the telecast. I've checked their library, Special Collections, the WSU archives. Also contacted were the Forensic Sciences and the Media Resources Center, as well as other people on campus.

I have found out that Dr. Eckert left Wichita in 1993 and died in 1999 in New Orleans, LA. According to an article in the Wichita Eagle, the research materials in the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Sciences are housed in the Jefferson Parish, La. Coroner's office (9-21-1999, pages 3A and 12A).

I'm still on the hunt, but if anyone has any further or more recent information about this please let me know. Wichita State University is now apparently as interested as I am in tracking down these materials. They wish to have copies for their records also.

Thanks,

JM

[Stewart P Evans]

I've been trying to track down primary source material, including the telecast, from the 'Ripper Project' organized by Wichita State University and the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Science. Since I am in Kansas, I thought my best bet would be Wichita State University.
To my surprise, the University no longer holds any of this material and does not even possess a copy of the telecast. I've checked their library, Special Collections, the WSU archives. Also contacted were the Forensic Sciences and the Media Resources Center, as well as other people on campus.
I have found out that Dr. Eckert left Wichita in 1993 and died in 1999 in New Orleans, LA. According to an article in the Wichita Eagle, the research materials in the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Sciences are housed in the Jefferson Parish, La. Coroner's office (9-21-1999, pages 3A and 12A).
I'm still on the hunt, but if anyone has any further or more recent information about this please let me know. Wichita State University is now apparently as interested as I am in tracking down these materials. They wish to have copies for their records also. Thanks,
JM

All I have ever seen is the Inform journal article on this, of which I have a copy.

[jmenges]

Thanks Stewart

Thanks Stewart,

Dr. Eckert wrote at least a couple of articles on the subject for the Am. J of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.

The Whitechapel Murders: The Case of Jack the Ripper 1981 Mar;2(1):53-60

The Ripper Project. Modern science solving mysteries of history 1989 Jun;10(2):164-71

I'll be receiving these two articles shortly and hopefully find out what other material exists in New Orleans.

JM

[Stewart P Evans]

Eckert Articles

Thanks Stewart,
Dr. Eckert wrote at least a couple of articles on the subject for the Am. J of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.
The Whitechapel Murders: The Case of Jack the Ripper 1981 Mar;2(1):53-60
The Ripper Project. Modern science solving mysteries of history 1989 Jun;10(2):164-71
I'll be receiving these two articles shortly and hopefully find out what other material exists in New Orleans.
JM

Yes, I have all three of Eckert's articles, they show a poor understanding of the case, errors and a lack of correct information. I would have sent you all three if I had realised you wanted them. Do you have the seven page INFORM article that I have mentioned?

[jmenges]

I do not, Stewart.

Please, if your so inclined, send them my way!



I've interlibrary loaned the 2 I mentioned above, is the third the Inform article? If so, I'd be glad to receive the one I'll be missing.

Any ideas on whether a copy of the telecast exists?

Thanks,

JM

[Stewart P Evans]

Eckert March 1981

As I recall all three are pretty much the same (I haven't read them lately). This is the first page of one of the others you list -

[Stewart P Evans]

The Third One

And this is the third one -



As you probably recall, Eckert took part in that nonsensical but entertaining TV documentary with Peter Ustinov The Secret Identity of Jack the Ripper.

[fido]

Bill Eckert was fascinated by the development of Criminal Identification Analysis ("Psychological profiling") and especially its exceptionally accurate prediction of the nature of the Con-Ed bomber. When Murdoch bought Fox TV and wanted some high profile material to get it established, Bill suggested getting the FBI to "profile" Jack the Ripper. To this end he came to England and (among other things) took Jack the Ripper walks. From Don Rumbelow's he took the suggested mode of killing by getting an arm around the neck of a prostitute who was presenting herself for rear entry, and so making a right handed cut from the left to the right of her throat. From my walk he took the theory that David Cohen was probably Anderson's suspect and the most likely candidate for JtR.
The television company Cosgrove-Muerer undertook making the programme, and interviewed eveyone they could who had written on the case: Richard Whittington-Egan and Tom Cullen may have been too frail or busy to contribute. But in the end Cosgrove-Muerer accepted Paul Begg as the most fully informed researcher, and took several hours of detailed information from him. They decided that the major "suspects" at that time were Sir William Gull, Prince Albert Victor, Montague John Druitt, Dr Donston and the Polish Jew. They used various experts or associated people to present each of the cases (Dan Farson for Druitt, Joe Sickert for Gull, Melvin Harris for Donston, I can't remember who for PAV, and me for Kosminski), and Don Rumbelow and I provided the narrative of the crimes. Before the programme they apologised to me for using the name Aaron Kosminski rather than David Cohen, saying they hadn't the space to put both names in. They turned to John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood of the FBI to prepare the profile, and a panel of judges would decide which was the most likely. In the end the panel of judges unanimously selected Kosminski - which, coupled with Paul Begg's being the histgorical consuiltant, may explain who Stewart describes it as 'nonsensical'. it acually represented a more concerted survey of all the evidence by people who came with considerable resources and no axe to grind that has ever been undertaken, before or since, however the final production with Peter Ustinov reciting telephone numbers as he plodded through studio fog may have looked.
Of great interest to me was the 'dry run' before filming, in which we went through everything, and Don and I in London listened to what Ustinov and the panel were saying in Los Angeles from a loudspeaker. To my delight, Bill Eckert named as his chosen suspect "David Cohen", and had to be told they weren't using that name, and he'd have to say Kosminski (as he durifully did in the broadcast).
As matter of general interest, the disinterested researchers and producers of Cosgrove-Muerer who had interviewed alsmost everyone who had ever written oin the Ripper concluded that Paul was the best historian, I got most fun out of working on the case, and Dan Farson was the best value and most delightful company of us all.
Years later it transpiured that John Douglas and Toy Hazelwood had never been shown the Cohen material, and when his co-author Mark olshaker found it and showed it to Johnhe was immediately convinced that this answered all the problems he had always felt existed around identifying Kosminski as the Ripper. So he finally went to press in his own book offering David Cohen "or someone very like him" as the probable Ripper.
All the best,
Martin F

[sdreid]

C. Wilson did PAV although he didn't appear to be much into it.

It was an entertaining show even if I believe the profile business was questionable. Douglas had the Green River Killer practically under his nose and didn't get a whiff.

I think my biggest criticism would be that they didn't seem to make any real effort to find sites that resembled the true ones.

It's around here on Beta someplace.

[Leatherface]

The special in question is available on DVD which is included in a collector's tin of two Christopher Lee films where he plays Sherlock Holmes. I believe they are "Incident at Victoria Falls" and "The Leading Lady." My father bought the set and sent the DVD to me. It is in a cardboard wrap, but contains the entire special. I have not been able to find it on Amazon, but he tells me he bougtht it at Best Buy.

[Chava]

I always had a problem with David Cohen being the suspect. He seemed too chaotic and out-of-control to have done these highly-organized murders. I remember the show--I was in Toronto expected to comment after the broadcast for the local audience.

[Leatherface]

I found the box set that I mentioned earlier which contains the 1988 special with Peter Ustinov. I know that this special was on dvd previously, but from what I can see it is only region 2 and runs about 30 bucks. The set is 18 dollars for two movies and the special. Here is the link...

http://www.amazon.com/Sherlock-Holmes-Collectors/dp/B000NOKJEA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1223514800&sr=1-1

On a side note, I agree that Cohen/Kosminski was way too erratic and unstable to safely approach and befriend these women in such a short time. JTR was a smooth operator (or at least ellicited a feeling of general safety) and Cohen didn't seem to do that.

R