tailor's marks

[Ashkenaz]

I was reading an interesting dissertation at this site. The author seems to believe that the facial mutillation cut into Kate Eddowes face, are tailor's marks.

Apparently tailors chalk these marks onto materials they are making clothing from. They alert other tailors to make adjustments and other things.

Does anyone know anything about this ? It would be fascinating if it were true.

[Supe]

Ashkenaz,

The idea was advanced by the late David Radka in his "grand unified theory" Alternative Ripperology that can be found among the dissertations. It was an ingenious idea, but as I recall, when pressed about it David admitted he had no idea if the cuts corresponded to any known tailor's marks or not.

Still, his theory is quite a tour de force and is quite worthy of further stidy, whether in the end you agree with his conclusions or not.

Don.

[tiglath]

I just came across this thread whilst searching for something else and it caught my eye.

I am a tailor by trade and know of no tailors' marks that correspond to the marks on Catherine's face. The cuts on her cheeks would have made sense if they were crosses or dashes but no tailor I know would have made inverted v's.

[Dan Norder]

David Radka was a particularly peculiar character. There are a lot of people who mislead themselves into thinking they've found something that isn't really there, but it takes a special kind of mentality to not only come up with the premise that the cuts were tailor's marks but then to assign the cuts extremely specific meanings to fit a theory despite not having any reason to. It'd be like deciding that the "Juwes" in the Goulston Street Graffito must be an Arabic word and then insisting that it means "police" as part of a theory blaming the crimes on a police constable, all without actually looking up any Arabic words.

The rest of Radka's writings are about that same level of argument, although some are even worse. His explanation of the special meaning of the word "Juwes" makes even less sense, if that's even possible.

[Scott Nelson]

Still at it, huh? Man, I thought that Kelly would have straightened you out by now. But you're just as bad as before. Get over yourself.

[perrymason]

Hello all,

Im not a tailor, but worked for Fashion Design firms for a few years at the beginning of my work days....I worked for Alfred Sung when there was only himself, Debora Kuchme a wedding dress designer at the time, and the 3 partners of Monaco Group...the original name of the company. A Salesmanager named Ellie Parker,..and a great looking receptionist whose name escapes me...south american.

Anyway....I have seen chalk v's on fabric, ... to indicate left or right, up or down from a particular point or seam. Mostly when layered fabric is marked for cutting using paper patterns, these days often by laser. I did know a few 7-8 fingered men though from the "old" days. They may cut 200 layers at a time, thats a lot of left sleeves to throw out if you dont have some precision, the marking offers that in general terms.

So...I believe they could be thought to be tailors marks, though when used on Kate, I believe mockery and a clown visage was what he was going for.

Cheers all.

[Howard Brown]

Had the Ripper performed this murder in the United States and left marks on her face in the same way as in Mitre Square, we'd probably have heard about the "private marks", as in the lone chevron a private in the U.S.Army wears on his shoulder. I feel that Dave pushed the tailor idea because he believed a Jew was Jack The Ripper...and obviously there were Jewish tailors in the area.

Thankfully,in this enlightened time of our field, we all know that the two " ^ " marks, when put together... are the first initial of the Ripper's first and last name...which we all know, merci beaucoups , is....Melville Macnaghten.

[Dan Norder]

Man, I thought that Kelly would have straightened you out by now. But you're just as bad as before.

Actually, many people think that taking the time to point out the nonsense in the field is a good thing, and Kelly is definitely one of them. The only way progress can be made in this field is to point out the bad arguments and sheer insanity in the field when they appear and to encourage those who do good research, and that's what we both practice.

[cappuccina]

...just an fyi...the inverted...

"v" symbol, i.e., "^", is also an ancient symbol for "male", with "V" being "female"...

[Monty]

Peter Wood pointed them out as shorthand symbols...

...Peter Wood doesnt post anymore.

Monty

[Ashkenaz]

"v" symbol, i.e., "^", is also an ancient symbol for "male", with "V" being "female"...

This is interesting cappuccina. To which peoples do these ancient symbols belong ? Are they Northern European, Middle Eastern etc ?

[Ashkenaz]

I just came across this thread whilst searching for something else and it caught my eye.

I am a tailor by trade and know of no tailors' marks that correspond to the marks on Catherine's face. The cuts on her cheeks would have made sense if they were crosses or dashes but no tailor I know would have made inverted v's.

Thank you for your input tiglath. It seems nothing to do with tailoring then.

I do think that the marks have significance. If all jtr wanted to do was cause cuts and blood, there would be not shaping or symmetry at all. It means something to him, of that I feel sure.

[Normy]

Depends how he was facing her when he made the marks, if he was facing her feet standing or sitting at the top of her head they would be 'v's to him.