The Double Event and the 'break': what was he doing?

[Howard Brown]

Excuse me for perambulatin' into this thread...but I cannot understand why Ripperologists use the line of demarcation between the City turf and the Met turf as if the Ripper did.

Nemo & Sammy....good points and nicely done.

[Sam Flynn]

I think we're straying into "what happened after the break" territory here, chaps... actually we're firmly in "what did he do after killing Eddowes" territory, which is a whole other topic.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Is it not quite plausible that the Ripper did not kill Stride. He killed Eddowes and headed at speed toward Whitechapel. He became aware of the hue and cry around Berner St. and doubled back toward the City in panic, unable to reach his haven, possibly having to creep away (explaining the time lapse).

Good theory, and very plausible and likely to me that that's what happened, or something along those lines.

[Ben]

Hi Nemo,

There would be little or no reason to give the authorities a clue to his direction of travel by casually discarding the apron.

...Although even if he was heading in the direction of his bolt-hole in the wake of the Eddowes murder, the fact that it evinced a "clue" as to his intended direction cannot have posed any real danger considering the many thousands of men who lived East of Goulston Street. A disposal at that location also entailed the added benefit of fuelling suspcions and ill-feeling towards the Jewish community, whether intentional or not.

Best regards,
Ben

[Nemo]

When the Ripper left Eddowes he was in a most vulnerable position. As in the case of Annie's death, he was in possession of a sharp, bloody knife, bodily organs, and in Eddowe's case, a large piece of Apron that could be linked to the victim.

Did the Ripper kill then put some distance between himself and the crime scene and then stop in a hidden place or deserted street to clean himself up before he carries on his way? - still with organs and a knife on him? All the time vulnerable?

I think it more likely that the Ripper, after each murder, headed immediately to a safe haven of some type of building where he could eat, preserve or otherwise dispose of the organs, wash himself and the knife, change clothes etc. There would be little or no reason to give the authorities a clue to his direction of travel by casually discarding the apron.

Is it not quite plausible that the Ripper did not kill Stride. He killed Eddowes and headed at speed toward Whitechapel. He became aware of the hue and cry around Berner St. and doubled back toward the City in panic, unable to reach his haven, possibly having to creep away (explaining the time lapse).

He had to get rid of the evidence as anybody walking the street would have been searched etc.

I think there was a good chance of finding the knife and the organs in or around Goulston St. or somewhere else on his line of travel. Unless he ate the organs immediately like Chikatilo.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam

The problem with the "decoy" theory is that at the Ripper must have been near Aldgate at 01.30 am to pick up Eddowes, which was only half an hour after the discovery of Stride, and Long stated that at 02.50 am the second murder was only a rumour :

[Coroner] Before going did you hear that a murder had been committed? - Yes. It is common knowledge that two murders have been perpetrated.
[Coroner] Which did you hear of? - I heard of the murder in the City. There were rumours of another, but not certain.

Good observation, Jon - but see my point about Long in my last post. Also, let's imagine that Jack was skulking around Whitechapel High Street at, say 01:10, when the balloon went up about the Berner Street murder. It wouldn't take him long to work out a contingency plan, and scuttle West towards Aldgate. That might still give him 20 minutes or so to hover around that area and single out a likely target.

[Sam Flynn]

"The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him."

Reasonable suggestion on the surface of things. But the suggested cautiousness on his behalf did not stop him from travelling straight back into H-division territory

Finding a victim on the street, and dispatching her in his preferred manner, would have taken time, Fish - of which there would arguably be more available on the City side, where the Whitechapel grapevine was less likely to buzz and drag spectators (or "H" Division cops) into the streets. In fact, any buzzing grapevine was likely to have attracted attention towards St George's East, rather than the Western side of the district. This, in itself, might suggest why PC Long didn't get to hear about the murders until a little later than might otherwise have been the case.

Ive been thinking that since this "break" is actually nothing of the sort really...he was probably doing just what he did between the other kills.

He only killed on the last or second last day of the month, or on the 8th or 9th of the next, but the same 10 day period.

Then he disappears to re-appear at months end again. Since he killed 2 women at Septembers end, that may account for his 2 victims within those same 10 days, and then he just goes wherever he usually goes for those days mid-month.

So the "break", if anything, is only a "break" from killing a woman in the last 2 days of October.... before his Nov 9th next kill. He misses one victim in his pattern, and breaks it in the middle of the "series", with 2 in one night.

This sequence causes me problems personally, because Mary and Liz would fit into it...and Im unconvinced so far that "Jack" killed either of them.

Best regards all.

[Jon Guy]

The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him.

Hi Sam

The problem with the "decoy" theory is that at the Ripper must have been near Aldgate at 01.30 am to pick up Eddowes, which was only half an hour after the discovery of Stride, and Long stated that at 02.50 am the second murder was only a rumour :

[Coroner] Before going did you hear that a murder had been committed? - Yes. It is common knowledge that two murders have been perpetrated.
[Coroner] Which did you hear of? - I heard of the murder in the City. There were rumours of another, but not certain.

[Stephen Thomas]

The easiest explanation to believe is that the Ripper got out of Mitre Square as quickly as possible, dumped the apron shortly thereafter, and Long simply missed it the first time round.

Sam,

Have you got a degree in Stating The Bloody Obvious?

[Fisherman]

Sam writes:

"The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him."

Reasonable suggestion on the surface of things. But the suggested cautiousness on his behalf did not stop him from travelling straight back into H-division territory, though - and with his pockets stuffed with damning evidence to top things off.
My money remains on him having nothing to do whatsoever with the Stride murder, since it would have been utterly risky and foolish of him to make that journey - and if the Eddowes slaying was proof of him being wary of the danger at hand, it all ends up in one big contradiction. Showing a determination to get out of the danger zone, only to change his mind and head straight back again? Nah...

The best,
Fisherman

[Sam Flynn]

As Sharks hunt their prey, Jack did his.

Good point, Monty - although Jack might have chosen the part of the "ocean" in which to hunt at any given time. The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him.

[Mike Covell]

M 'n' P,



As Sharks hunt their prey, Jack did his.

He didnt choose the pick up location, his victims did.

Monty

I thought he was making a giant symbol on a map?

[Monty]

M 'n' P,

I wonder what Jack was doing in Aldgate (or thereabouts)?

As Sharks hunt their prey, Jack did his.

He didnt choose the pick up location, his victims did.

Monty

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Seeing as I don't think Stride is a Ripper victim anymore, on account of her having apparently been killed by a different type of knife and that her throat wound didn't quite match that of Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, I wonder what Jack was doing in Aldgate (or thereabouts)?

I've always thought Jack was a local man who lived in Whitechapel and this kind of solidifies that theory as he headed back into Whitechapel to dump the apron after ripping Eddowes. Why else would he choose to discard the apron in Whitechapel otherwise? Unless he did it to claim her as 'the Whitechapel murderer's' handiwork. But he seems like the type of killer who wouldn't particuarly care about taking the credit for 'trivial' things like that and only seemed passionate about the mutilations.

Did he work in Aldgate or socialise there and killed Eddowes on his way home or something? That could be a [morbidly] funny reason for his botching her innerds up, having drank a bit too much prior to doing so. Or maybe he ventured out that way after hearing about the Stride murder and deemed Whitechapel too risky to carry out his little hobby, fearing he'd get nicked by the filth?

I'm not really sure what point I'm getting at here (or that I even have one ), but I just got thinking after reading about the Double Event a few minutes ago.