So who was Jack the Ripper.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
A simple question from yours truely,a man that has been fascinated by this subject since 1959, why that year? answer proberly a 'victorian' history lesson mentioning that 'Name'.
So who was 'Jack'?
I have attempted to decifer every snippit of information, that was/is available to us over the years, and my conclusion is / will always be/ the answer to a possible outcome, lies with the death of Mary jane kelly, and therefore the series may have been the result of a domestic nature. which would suggest suspects, that would include, her common law, JB, her Ex, Fleming, and a possible not much discussed the illusive Lawrence.
It is also fair to assume, that because we are not in the position to be priviliged to any other names that may have presented themselves to poor Mjk, leading up to her death, someone else may have had a leading role in this huge mystery...
So That is my intake on this ongoing crime, what are your views 'CASEBOOK'
Best Regards,
Richard.

[Natalie Severn]

hi Richard,
I dont think it anything much to do with Mary Kelly myself.I tend to see her murder as being one committed after a long gap and indoors simply because he had become nervous of killing women in the open air due to the much increased size of the police force and all the Whitechapel vigilantes chasing after him in the previous five weeks.
I dont see any evidence for it being anything else. In fact I think given the average age of his other victims-something like 43- it probably had more to do with a" mother figure" somewhere in the background- possibly his actual mother who may have been a prostitute and a drinker,or it could have been to do with a " hate" figure eg a workhouse "matron", or a nanny or strict aunt !But above all,Mary,like all the rest,was available that night when he was on the prowl.
Cheers
Norma

[Suzi]

Hi Norma and Richard-

I know it's seriously tempting to think of Mary as a sort of lynch pin-something that will open a magic door and reveal all should we find person 'X'- but sadly- as the days/years tick by ,this becomes less and less likely-not that it was even likely at the time,owing to the transient relationships people had and the fact that it was probably 'wiser' to keep your mouth shut as to who you knew ,to be on the safe side some/most of the time,for reasons various!

Mary,in many ways is SO different to the other poor souls,that sometimes I find it difficult to fit her in as the last of The Famous Five at all.

Suz x

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Suzi!
Yes I know.I do still think she was a victim of Jack the Ripper,Suzi.Also the others had just travelled further along that road she seemed to be heading down.It also looks to me she got tired of Joe,once he couldnt come through with the goods,and shifted him so she could get back to getting some money from " clients".Both she and Liz Stride seem to have found that way of life from a very young age.Mary it appears was very partial to sailors,which was why Leman Street was her preferred patch-----not too sure it was the sailors she was after or their bottle of rum!

[c.d.]

Hi Suzi!
Yes I know.I do still think she was a victim of Jack the Ripper,Suzi.Also the others had just travelled further along that road she seemed to be heading down.It also looks to me she got tired of Joe,once he couldnt come through with the goods,and shifted him so she could get back to getting some money from " clients".Both she and Liz Stride seem to have found that way of life from a very young age.Mary it appears was very partial to sailors,which was why Leman Street was her preferred patch-----not too sure it was the sailors she was after or their bottle of rum!

That gives new meaning to "ho ho ho and a bottle of rum."

c.d.

[Natalie Severn]

That gives new meaning to "ho ho ho and a bottle of rum."

c.d.

Hi c.d.
It does indeed!There is a newspaper report somewhere ,where someone tells the reporter that Mary was often to be seen leaving Leman Street "with one arm linked through a sailors,the other clutching a big bottle of rum and the two of them singing and rolling their way back home!
Norma

[Suzi]

Yep Good points Norma-
Maybe Joe had an idea that maybe if he kept Mary 'sweet' with his regular visits,she may weaken and have him back and give up her 'wicked ways'...Arriving on the fateful night/evening and finding Mary with a 'disreputable' chum he may have finally gone over the edge! I am NOT saying that Joe was The Ripper though-far from it!!!!...As you know- I'm a great follower of 'The Grey/(therefore) Invisible Man persuasion me!!

YO!!!!!!!!!!! ho ho!! c.d !!

GREAT image there of Mary with the jolly 'Jack' on one arm and the rum under the other!!! (Or maybe the other way round! hehe)

[AdamWalsh]

"Who was Jack The Ripper?"

Honestly? I think he was no one - none of the suspects here - just a regular man who lived his life and most probably fought his violent desires for the first 25 or 26 years of his life before he finally gave in, perhaps realising his life and his "lot" as it were were quite meaningless - killing gives power and reason again, evisceration being the most inhumane (or one of the most) things you can inflict upon somebody, maybe he just had a general contempt for all women perhaps having been humiliated by a prostitute or maybe an overbearing mother, perhaps a wifes miscarriage - anything along those lines may have made him/helped him do what he did.

Like all the great mysteries - JFK, Zodiac, etc etc - we will never know the truth for 100% and all we are really doing here is passing time.

[joelhall]

personally i think that jack didnt exist the way people like to think of him and everyones barking up the wrong tree. i dont really go for the sexual killer or the nutter theories at all. alot of theorising ive seen just appears to be relying too heavily on modern crimes, people becoming too anal over details despite closed minds, or really just trying to be too clever about it all (you see this more & more with each new 'solution' which comes about).

joel

[Graham]

personally i think that jack didnt exist the way people like to think of him and everyones barking up the wrong tree. i dont really go for the sexual killer or the nutter theories at all. alot of theorising ive seen just appears to be relying too heavily on modern crimes, people becoming too anal over details despite closed minds, or really just trying to be too clever about it all (you see this more & more with each new 'solution' which comes about).

joel

It's human nature, Joel. The Ripper crimes were a long time ago, never solved, and because of the location and the way of life of the victims they're a very fertile breeding-ground for any number of crank theories and just plain silliness. However, don't get too despondent, because much excellent work has been and is being carried out on 'serious' suspects such as Druitt, Kosminski, Bury, even though it is now virtually impossible for proof to be found of the guilt of any named suspect. Personally, I tend to go along with those who say that the Ripper's name if ever genuinely located would be totally unknown to us. But that doesn't stop us all having a bit of fun, does it? The Ripper's i.d. is and will remain a mystery, but again human nature, given a mystery, will make it a bigger and deeper mystery.

In passing, what really pees me off are the (sometimes) interminable and pointless discussions on these boards about, for example, whether so-and-so could see the colour of someone-else's socks in the dark...you know what I mean. That stuff, so far as I'm concerned, is a waste of space and energy and gets us nowhere. What I really like is the expertise that's often shown in the research into, and the tracking of, a named suspect, someone who actually existed; people capable of doing that 120 years after the event have my total admiration.

Cheers,

Graham

[Limehouse]

I go along with the idea that Jack was an unknown nobody, probably a local man or a man who knew the locality quite well. I think he was someone who could engage the women in conversation and project himself as being safe and trustworthy.

I believe he gained sexual satisfaction from the killings but I think he was also driven by anger. The causes of his anger could me multiple and deeply-seated. If my description above is accurate, he could certainly relate to women and they to him, but he does seem to have been driven by the need to attack the biological and later the facial identities of the women.

His choice of prostitutes could simply boil down to their availability and the relative ease of escape in that locality. However, it could also have been a desire to attack women-of-the-night, but I don't really go along with the syphalitic-ridden tragic figure bent on revenge for himself/his son theory. Jack clearly had a personality disorder.

The letters etc? I think all of them were hoaxes.

[Suzi]

Hi Limehouse-

My thoughts EXACTLY!!! Thanks...saves me typing it all up!!

Suz x

[richardnunweek]

Hi Limehouse,
I am afraid I cannot go along with the idea that 'Jack' was 'Mr Normal' and would have been able to engage in innocent conversation with his victms, before despatching them.
There was a report that Nichols may have been roughed up by her killer, shortly before her life was taken, also the apparent 'rough treatment' in the yard of 29, and of course 'Broadshoulders' was hardly coming across as a 'Charmer'...
And where did Eddowes bruise[ of recent origin] originate?.
It would appear to have been caused by being grasped by the hand with some pressure.
Unless her boyfriend was in the habit of holding her hand in a vice type grip. it may be fair to speculate that either, it happened attempting to get her to the police station, or her killer was responsible.
There was also 'Oral history' suggesting that Mjk was being pulled along with some force along her passage note'All right my luv, dont pull me along'.
Summing up.
I would therefore suggest , that in my opinion, our killer was a outwardly violent man, even before his knife was drawn.
Regards Richard.

[downonwhores]

Mr Normal

I can name many serial killers who appeared normal and could engage in everyday conversation. Ted Bundy was considered, "Charming", Peter Sutcliffe was also friendly, BTK was a church teacher, Green River Killer was considered very polite by the police and FBI, Ed Gein was a babysitter while he was killing, Wayne Gacy worked at children's birthday parties as a clown.
Serial killers can appear normal so I think your statement is a little premature.

[Mike Covell]

Many years ago a good friend of the family was working in a late night cafe, when a young man knocked on the window. The cafe was closed and all the fryers and cookers had been turned off, but she felt sorry for the bearded truck driver.

She let him in a made him a hot pot of tea, and fired up a stove to make him some soup. She piled the bread up and re-filled his pot.

After a while he politley asked if she would join him, as he had been on the road all day and was hungry for conversation. He asked about her family, complimented her, on her hair, and said her food was "Delicious".

He produced some money and feeling sorry for him, she said it was on the house, and was pleased he liked it.

He gave her a hug, and left, getting into his delivery truck and driving off into the night.

Although she never saw him again in person, she did see on the news that he had been arrested.

She described the Yorkshire Ripper as being one of the nicest men she had met, mild mannered, charming, and great to talk too!