So who was Jack the Ripper.

[Sasha]

Hello Sasha,
a duet is one thing, but a group of 4 or 5 killers being on the same spot, one killing, the other one watching out, etc, is a completely different matter!
That's what makes Joel's theory quite unique, and that's why we are waiting for additional speculations from Joel about the supposed group of killers he has conjectured.

Amitiés,
David

Yes, David. It is a little different but the issues remain the same. If the killers knew each other, even were in collaboration with each other, what's holding them together? Anyway, I believe both Stride and Kelly had different killers than the other three but am still struggling with the idea of four or more killers. Sounds like an epidemic. But hey, anything's possible!

Je t'embrasse.
Sasha

[DVV]

Hello Sasha,
I would say deconstruction is stimulating...only to some extent...
As to me the discrepancies between abdominal mutilations aren't a problem, since I see the killer, here, explorating an unexplored horrible field...
The way the throat was cut (down to the spine) in Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly's cases seems to me far more significant as the murderer's signature.

Je t'embrasse également!
Amitiés,
David

[crj]

the ripper

anyone who wants to know who the ripper was please investigate the following murders..

Laura Whittlesay,11th April 1890 Hurley Wisconsin USA
28th April 1890 Benthen Germany
4th December 1890 Burne Switzerland
Carrie Brown 24th April 1891 Jersey City USA
Nitsche 25th October 1891 Berlin Germany
Elizebeth Senior 31st Jan 1892 New Jersey USA
3rd April 1892 Berlin Germany
Juliana Hoffman 31st August 1894 New York USA

Male apprehended at the scene of the murder of Juliana Hoffman Carl Feigenbaum or Zahn German immigrant and former merchant seaman charged with murder sentenced to death by electric chair killed on 27th April 1896.

The lawyer of mr Feigenbaum later broke client confidentiallity over his concerns about mr Feigenbaum and his knowledge gained that he was in and out of London as a merchant sailor at the time of ALL of the Whitechapel murders.

Please study these murders listed above and the similarity of all of them in various ways to those of Whitechapel

[DVV]

Write a two-pages book and close the case, crj!

[joelhall]

Santé Joel,
just think about Vacher's murders. Much more dissimilarities than in our case, but that one killer for sure.
And I insist, though I will appear so "classic", that similarities abond, and that the "scale" theory, if questionable, still is far more reasonnable to me that the group you are suggesting.
One of your post above showed these "several killers" on the same spot - one killing, the other being on the watch or faciliting the escape (in which way?) - behaving separately, as if they did not knew each other, if I understood well.
Do you imagine the training that this supposed? I know you're just thinking your matter, but can you tell more about these killers? Their skills, backgroungs, motives?
Amitiés,
D

no, two killers would not necessarily be in the same spot (though it is possible from the witness testimony of the berner street murder). by facillitating escape, i mean that there would be numerous safe houses near-by, 'witnesses' to put police on the wrong track, even possibly planting evidence, such as the bloody rag, so as to give a diversion (speculating on the possibilities, apologies).

as for more about the killers and background, i am still studying sources, so i wont comment at the moment. rest assured i will when i find out more.

[DVV]

Hi Joel,
You know I do not despise any theory since it is feed with honest research. Not only for the sake of entertainment, but because I think that what I consider an unlikely theory has a good chance to raise questions I would not have formulated myself.
So go ahead!
Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

But since you've aroused my curiosity, just one question (if you can answer it at this stage):
is one of your possible killers somebody already known and suspected, such as Pizer, Isenschmid, Botchy-Face, Hutch?

[Jon Guy]

Peter Kurten, the Dusseldorf killer, used a variety of methods to kill his victims and he also killed men, women and children.

I would rule out suffocation in the Whitechapel victims. It would have taken a bit of time, the women would almost certainly have squealed (unless he had a pillow or similar to smother the noises) and it would have increased his chances of being caught. A swift but effective cut across the throat renders the victim silent almost instantly, allowing the killer to get on with the mutilations he so desperartely wanted to perform. Also, with this method, if he looks like being disturbed in the course of mutilating a woman, he can get up and run away, without fear of his victim recovering enough to identify or describe him. A partly smothered woman might do so.

Hi Limehouse

The bruises to Nichol`s face suggest that the killer stood behind her and had his right hand across the mouth and nose, his palm bruising the right side of her face and his finger nails scratched her by her left ear. I believe that due to the lack of arterial spray with Eddowes and Nichols, and the amount of blood in the abdominal cavity suggests they were unconcious and possibly dead when their throat was cut.

But, just my opinion !!

[joelhall]

But since you've aroused my curiosity, just one question (if you can answer it at this stage):
is one of your possible killers somebody already known and suspected, such as Pizer, Isenschmid, Botchy-Face, Hutch?

its certainly possible, yes, though i wouldnt venture to name anyone at this point. theres no real evidence to suggest this, but obviously its perfectly possible any of them could be involved, and i cannot rule them out just yet. fact is im a long way off looking for specific suspects (if it ever gets that far!)

[Dan Norder]

anyone who wants to know who the ripper was please investigate the following murders..

Those murders have very little in common with each other, let alone anything like a Jack the Ripper murder. In fact at least one of them wasn't even a murder at all.

he was in and out of London as a merchant sailor at the time of ALL of the Whitechapel murders

There's certainly no evidence of that. The best Marriott had to support this idea was that there were boats in London at the time, not that Feigenbaum was known to be on them.

For more information on the crimes mentioned above and on Carl Feigenbaum, read Wolf Vanderlinden's article "Carl Ferdinand Feigenbaum: An Old Suspect Resurfaces" in Ripper Notes #28. Feigenbaum is a somewhat interesting character, but he's a very poor suspect for being Jack the Ripper.

[Red Zeppelin]

I believe both Stride and Kelly had different killers than the other three but am still struggling with the idea of four or more killers. Sounds like an epidemic.

3 is fine but 4 isn't?

I don't quite understand that. 3 seems weird enough. Not much less weird than 4.

[Sasha]

I kinda meant that Stride and Kelly sound like domestic crimes to me. The fact that they were prostitutes could have been coincidental. But I take your point. Anyway the idea that there was more than one murderer in Whitechapel in 1888 is not a new idea (although I don't think I've heard of someone arguing that each of the C5 was killed by a different person before). And here's something I stumbled on today that I've never heard before (although it would be consistent with Joel's theory).

'More Than One Jack the Ripper' - Latest Claim
By Gary Kelly, PA News

FROM: http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2623937
More than one person probably carried out the series of gory murders attributed to the notorious Jack the Ripper, it was claimed today.

Former murder squad detective Trevor Marriott said it was highly unlikely the same killer had been responsible for the “double event murders” when the bodies two of the Ripper’s victims were discovered within 12 minutes of each other.

“My theory is that had the Ripper been responsible for the first murder and had been disturbed as has been suggested, he would have been in a great hurry to escape from the area.

“It is highly unlikely that the murderer would have stopped a second time to murder a second victim in such a short space of time,” he added.

Mr Marriott, a former detective constable in Bedfordshire Police was in Londonderry today to deliver a presentation entitled “Jack the Ripper: Man or Myth”.

[nickie]

I cannot even begin to speculate on who the responsible party was. I have way more reading to do. I guess I'd better get to it then.
All the best,

[Limehouse]

Hi Limehouse

The bruises to Nichol`s face suggest that the killer stood behind her and had his right hand across the mouth and nose, his palm bruising the right side of her face and his finger nails scratched her by her left ear. I believe that due to the lack of arterial spray with Eddowes and Nichols, and the amount of blood in the abdominal cavity suggests they were unconcious and possibly dead when their throat was cut.

But, just my opinion !!

Hi John,
Your description makes sense to me. I had envisaged a quite dfferent method of suffocation. However, what I do find strange is that he cut the throats as well. Was this an important part of the ritual for him? As important as the other mutilations?

[Jon Guy]

Hi John,
Your description makes sense to me. I had envisaged a quite dfferent method of suffocation. However, what I do find strange is that he cut the throats as well. Was this an important part of the ritual for him? As important as the other mutilations?

Good Morning, Limehouse !!

I believe the throat cut served as a practical cut, because it severed the vocal chord, it would kill the victim and the loss of blood from the wound in the neck would mean less on the killer when he did his thing to the torso.

Regarding suffocation by hand,this may account for why Polly`s nose appears as it does in the mortuary photo.