The access to Marys room

[Michael W Richards]

Hello all,

I've often wondered about that supposedly missing key to Mary's room. Many have posted speculation about how the killer got in, and it would appear by the following excerpt in the Star on November 12th that the question of key access is a non-starter..."The key of the murdered woman's door has been found, so that her murderer did not carry it away with him, as was at first supposed."

What Im curious about is who produced the missing key, was it the same key that Mary and Joe used until it was lost, and how was it found so quickly.

In the edition of the Star its reported that nothing of Marys remains was taken by the killer, so perhaps the found key is also an error.

Anyone have any info of who produced the key?

[Wickerman]

Mary let her killer in, it needs to be no more complicated than that.

The lock was a spring-lock, so when the door was closed it automatically locked.
When the killer leaves, the door again automatically locked as he closed it behind him.

I'm not sure if it wasn't William Fishman, or another source?, who explained that these women typically had nothing of value by way of possessions in their rooms. The door was only locked when they were home, for personal protection. Mostly when they were out the door was left unlocked, due to the fact they had nothing worth stealing. Which compared to our modern society seems counter intuitive.
These were different times, with different priorities.

[Michael W Richards]

Mary let her killer in, it needs to be no more complicated than that.

The lock was a spring-lock, so when the door was closed it automatically locked.
When the killer leaves, the door again automatically locked as he closed it behind him.

I'm not sure if it wasn't William Fishman, or another source?, who explained that these women typically had nothing of value by way of possessions in their rooms. The door was only locked when they were home, for personal protection. Mostly when they were out the door was left unlocked, due to the fact they had nothing worth stealing. Which compared to our modern society seems counter intuitive.
These were different times, with different priorities.

Hi Jon,

Im in agreement with you when you say Mary let him in...always have been actually, Im more interested in how this missing key is produced.

All the best for the holidays.

[Wickerman]

The London Evening Standard of the same date, Nov. 12th, also reported the discovery of the key.
Barnett had already testified earlier in the afternoon at the inquest that the key had been missing for some time.

What is odd to me is that the evening papers go to print in the afternoon, yet the inquest was underway about the same time. Which tends to suggest the evening press, or at least their common source - an agency?, were aware of the key being found while Barnett was testifying that it had been missing for some time.
It doesn't seem likely that the key would have turned up in the room somewhere or that would have been found over the weekend, at least before the inquest.

[S.Brett]

Hi Michael, Hi Jon!

Inquest, Mary Jane Kelly, Mary Ann Cox stated:

I last saw her alive on Thursday night, at a quarter to twelve, very much intoxicated.
[Coroner] Where was this ? - In Dorset-street. She went up the court, a few steps in front of me.
[Coroner] Was anybody with her ? - A short, stout man, shabbily dressed. He had on a longish coat, very shabby, and carried a pot of ale in his hand.
[Coroner] Did you see them go into her room ? - Yes; I said "Good night, Mary," and she turned round and banged the door.

It seems to me that Kelly was in possession of the key. No indication about putting a hand through the broken window and moving back the catch.

Karsten.

[Wickerman]

Hi Karsten

Isn't what we read consistent with her simply opening a closed door?
What makes you think the door was locked?

[Pierre]

Mary let her killer in, it needs to be no more complicated than that.

The lock was a spring-lock, so when the door was closed it automatically locked.
When the killer leaves, the door again automatically locked as he closed it behind him.

I'm not sure if it wasn't William Fishman, or another source?, who explained that these women typically had nothing of value by way of possessions in their rooms. The door was only locked when they were home, for personal protection. Mostly when they were out the door was left unlocked, due to the fact they had nothing worth stealing. Which compared to our modern society seems counter intuitive.
These were different times, with different priorities.

Prater barricaded her door. Why would Kelly not have barricaded her door?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Pierre,

How could Kelly have barricaded her door after she had been murdered?

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

We only know that Pierre because Prater told us, Kelly didn't have a chance to tell us whether she ever barricaded her door.
Maybe the lock did not work on Prater's door?

[S.Brett]

Isn't what we read consistent with her simply opening a closed door?
What makes you think the door was locked?

Thanks Jon!

Barnett:

"She had on several occasions asked me to read about the murders she seemed afraid of someone, she did not express fear of any particular individual except when she rowed with me but we always came to terms quickly."

She appeared to be frightened of Ripper and of someone other than the Ripper. It´s hard to imagine that she left her room without locking the door.

But anyway, nothing´s impossible...

I wish you a Merry Christmas.

Karsten.

[spyglass]

Hi,
Ah yes...the key.
MJK was never murdered, and the whole Millers Court thing was a complete ( almost well executed ) police set up for many reasons I have mentioned before of late.
The missing key has held my interest for a long time now, and of course the one thing you need to stage a murder indoors is the key, unfortunately even the best Laid plans can go wrong.
Simply, for all those involved that night, it was just a case of "I thought you had the key"
" No...I gave it to him to give to you"
" I didn't have the key...you had it "
All in great British farce tradition.
Hence come the next morning, they all stood around for ages expecting someone to turn up with it, why else wait so long before deciding to smash it down.
There is even a good chance that in all of the confusion of setting up the scene, one of them actually left the key in the room, only for someone to secretly to retrieve it during the investigation of the room....Hey! Maybe it was one of the items that Phillips took home with him that day.

Regards.

[Pierre]

Hi Pierre,

How could Kelly have barricaded her door after she had been murdered?

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

How could Kelly have barricaded her door before she was murdered?

Regards, Pierre

[Robert]

I tend to think that IF any key was found, it was McCarthy's.

[Wickerman]

I tend to think that IF any key was found, it was McCarthy's.

It struck me that McCarthy should have had a spare key, which if true makes it all the more puzzling that he forced the door at the request of the police.

[Robert]

Yes Jon, I can only assume that he did have a key, but in the time available failed to find it, and had to prise open the door.