The Double Event

[The Station Cat]

I believe Stride got into a bit of bother with person or persons unknown, had her throat cut as a result. Everyone just assumed it was Jack like they did for several other well documented women.

Meantime while Jack happens across Eddowes in Mitre Square does the deed (possibly unaware of what was unfolding in Berner Street). Makes his way "home" discarding the apron en route.


If we also take into account the increased level of injury from Nichols to Kelly each one more savage than the one before we have a pattern?

[The Station Cat]

Hi cat
Stride was a ripper victim.

All the witnesses the night of the double event describe a man with a peaked cap. marshall, PC smith, Scwartz at the Stride scene. Lawende at the Eddowes scene.

The ripper was wearing a peaked cap the night of the double event. To me its the final straw that connects stride with Eddowes to the same man.

Okay Abby, you've got my attention.

But one question, how common were peaked caps as a form of head dress during the period? I fear it would be like saying he was seen in a tracksuit if it happened today?

I'm in no doubt Stride was murdered by the guy Schwartz saw pushing her to the floor (was that Jack???). What are the odds or her coming to blows with another assailant shortly afterwards, who befriends her then kills her. Jack then walks all the way Mitre square past numerous police officers, vigilantes and members of the public (having just cut some women's throat and been disturbed as we are lead to believe). He then finds another victim who he again befriends in a few minutes, kills her cuts her up (all within a very small period of time). Then walks to Goulston Street, drops the bloody apron (I'm not going down the graffiti route), then makes good his escape past all the police, etc and back "home".

[Harry D]

Regarding the "violent struggle'. This is completely dependent on Schwartz's evidence which, for numerous reasons discussed at length in previous threads, I consider to be highly dubious.

Agreed, John. I'm reluctant to take Schwartz at face value when his testimony is uncorroborated and unsupported by the facts. Everything points to a blitz attack on Stride but Schwartz would have us believe that Stride's killer was an antisemitic brute roughing up his victim in the street, even though Fanny Mortimer never heard a thing and the elusive 'Pipe Man' never came forward to back it up. 'BS Man' was a Jewish invention to deflect suspicion away from the socialists club.

[John G]

A moderately cut throat preceded by a violent struggle outside a noisy club, versus (apparently) a "coochie-coo" smooch outside a practicallly deserted Mitre Square followed by a savagely cut throat, disembowelment and nasty facial mutilations.

I don't see much of a pattern there, either in the killer's approach or in the outcome.

A moderately cut throat? Dr Phillips: "The carotid artery on the left side and the other vessels contained in the sheath were all cut through, save the posterior portion of the carotid..." Dr Phillips also noted, "The throat was deeply gashed." (The emphasis is mine).

Seems like a severely cut throat to me.

Regarding the "violent struggle'. This is completely dependent on Schwartz's evidence which, for numerous reasons discussed at length in previous threads, I consider to be highly dubious.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hello Abby,

Why do you think the B.S. man went on to kill Stride after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man? It would be a reasonable assumption that Schwartz had run off to find the nearest P.C. who was now making his way back to the scene. Also, had the B.S. man not killed Stride he would simply be accused of pushing a woman to the ground. Hardly a hanging offense.

c.d.

Agreed
And with Stride screaming [albeit not very loudly] who is to say that someone like Fanny Mortimer might not have heard it, come to the door and witnessed it as well. Two witnesses, one who definitely saw BS man, which he knew, with the possibility of more. And who is to say that Stride would not have put up more of a fight , and other witnesses would have seen/heard this, rushed to her aid, outside a busy club [ no sudden blitz attack here, grabbing her quickly by the throat, thus silencing her etc ], and caught him red handed [so to speak], with a knife in his hand. No, doesn't sound like Jack to me.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby,

Why do you think the B.S. man went on to kill Stride after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man? It would be a reasonable assumption that Schwartz had run off to find the nearest P.C. who was now making his way back to the scene. Also, had the B.S. man not killed Stride he would simply be accused of pushing a woman to the ground. Hardly a hanging offense.

c.d.

Hi cd
First of all we don't know he knew he was seen by pipe man. Agree that he probably knew or thought that a PC would be back soon. Which is why stride probably wound up with only a cut throat.

I actually think that bs man might have cut her throat on the street and that Schwartz, while witnessing the attack, didn't actually see that specific part of it.
I think stride didn't realize that she was in mortal danger until it was too late. Which may be why she didnt yell out very loudly. Once she realized her throat had been cut she tried to make her way towards the sounds of the club and perceived safety/help, only to expire in the yard.

[Ginger]

Triple murder, if you we include Sarah Brown. Does this reduce the likelihood of Stride & Eddowe's murders being connected or the reverse?

I'd argue that it does neither. Murder was a rare enough crime that I don't think we can conclude much at all from unadorned statistical arguments. We ought, instead, to rely on what can be determined about the murderer or murderers by his or their behaviour, and by what evidence was left behind.

[c.d.]

Hello Abby,

Why do you think the B.S. man went on to kill Stride after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man? It would be a reasonable assumption that Schwartz had run off to find the nearest P.C. who was now making his way back to the scene. Also, had the B.S. man not killed Stride he would simply be accused of pushing a woman to the ground. Hardly a hanging offense.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Well then we have to disagree, Abby. There are too many red flags for me to go with the B.S. man as Stride's killer and for the peaked cap just how common were they at the time?

c.d.

No worries. It's just my opinion.

I'm sure they are about as common as peaked caps (baseball caps) are now.
That's to say probably fairly common. But if it was the same situation just transposed to now-I'm pretty sure that the detective today would conclude that the killer was wearing a baseball cap and that they were all probably the same man.

I will concede that of the c 5, I have stride as the least likely of them to be a ripper victim, but not by much.

I will also concede, that I seem to see more similarities, patterns and less coincidences than most on here.

[c.d.]

Well then we have to disagree, Abby. There are too many red flags for me to go with the B.S. man as Stride's killer and for the peaked cap just how common were they at the time?

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Do you care to elaborate there, Abby?

c.d.

Marshall pc smith Schwartz, church street sighting, Lawende. All describe a man wearing a peaked cap.

It's the final straw for me that connects stride and eddowes murder and that bs man was not only strides killer but also the ripper.

[c.d.]

Do you care to elaborate there, Abby?

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Stride's murderer does not seem to have been angry. I don't think it was the B.S. man. No argument was heard post B.S. man. Stride was not slapped around, no blows to the face. She was not stabbed anywhere on her body other than her throat. And of course those damn cachous. I don't see anger anywhere in that scenario rather a cool, calculated killer that caught her off guard.

c.d.

Peaked cap

[c.d.]

"A moderately cut throat preceded by a violent struggle outside a noisy club..."

Hello Sam,

A "violent struggle"? Not according to Schwartz.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Stride's murderer does not seem to have been angry. I don't think it was the B.S. man. No argument was heard post B.S. man. Stride was not slapped around, no blows to the face. She was not stabbed anywhere on her body other than her throat. And of course those damn cachous. I don't see anger anywhere in that scenario rather a cool, calculated killer that caught her off guard.

c.d.