strange ripper curiosity picked up at a car boot years ago

[cloak and dagger]

hello again to all,
i used to use this site quite regularly until a few years back, i started to view it again a few months back, but my account had gone, apparantly the site crashed a few years back ?
anyhow it's all sorted now, so i can make this post.
a few years back, when i was an avid ripper follower, i purchased this curiosity from a chap in his late 70's at a car boot sale, i was drawn to his stall as he had lots of interesting and old items.
i am just interested to know, if anyone knows anything about it, or if they have come across anything similar in the past.
obviously, i know it's not genuine, but it has me intrigued.
anyhow, here are some pics that will shed a little light on the item.
if anyone has anymore information, then i'd love to hear it.
best wishes, gary.























any help will be greatly appreciated

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Mr Dagger,
Interesting find, but it looks to me like one of those curious fakes that seem to be so popular on eBay and the like. I'm sure I've seen similar collections for sale, along with antique apothecary's cases, vampire slayer's kits and the like.

Also, is one of the objects really labelled 'buttplug'? That doesn't sound very Victorian to me. I'm far from an expert on the subject (and a quick Google search has revealed that a Dr Young was advertising his Ideal Rectal Dilators as early as 1893) but that particular item looks to me to be the stopper from a glass decanter. Which isn't to say it wasn't used for any other purpose, but
hopefully not at the same time....

[Rosella]

No disrespect to you at all, Mr Dagger, but...
Really, I know everyone here is interested in the Ripper, but I have to say whoever assembled this array of tatty old objects from various sources to sell had too much time on his hands and more than a bit of an creepy and obsessive interest in the victims of these famous murders. I remember reading Donald Rumbelow years ago when he described being lured into visiting this guy who'd assembled a similar amateur collection. Donald retreated fast!

[Pcdunn]

I've seen something elsewhere on the web by an artist who assembles objects relating to a specific historical figure or literary character (Dracula, Dr. Jekyll, etc.) I think this is something similar.
"Steampunk" is wildly popular nowadays, and anything relating to the Victorian age (fake or not) has a chance of selling, so that's probably why your flea-market seller offered it.
Interesting.

[Geddy2112]

Seems legit

[cloak and dagger]

No disrespect to you at all, Mr Dagger, but...
Really, I know everyone here is interested in the Ripper, but I have to say whoever assembled this array of tatty old objects from various sources to sell had too much time on his hands and more than a bit of an creepy and obsessive interest in the victims of these famous murders. I remember reading Donald Rumbelow years ago when he described being lured into visiting this guy who'd assembled a similar amateur collection. Donald retreated fast!

hi rosella, i totally agree, but why anybody would even take the time is beyond me, i assume this professor postlewait was no more a professor than i am. i think this probably started its life in a shady seaside tourist attraction somewhere in the uk. in a downmarket version along the lines of ripley, barnum, etc, from the 1940's 50's.
none the less, it is quite a talking point, well it was until the wife made me take it off the mantlepiece

[ChrisGeorge]

No disrespect to you at all, Mr Dagger, but...
Really, I know everyone here is interested in the Ripper, but I have to say whoever assembled this array of tatty old objects from various sources to sell had too much time on his hands and more than a bit of an creepy and obsessive interest in the victims of these famous murders. I remember reading Donald Rumbelow years ago when he described being lured into visiting this guy who'd assembled a similar amateur collection. Donald retreated fast!

There are a lot of "mocked up" artifacts on the market purposely souped up to take in the unwary. This doesn't even look as if it has much credibility beyond being mildly interesting, but of course as with a lot of such objects people will pay good money because they think they are getting something that is genuinely associated with the case. The fact is that there are a lot of dubious objects with supposed links to the case that aren't what they purport to be, e.g., Catherine Eddowes' supposed shawl that appears to be a Victorian furniture covering, James Maybrick's alleged "Diary" written implausibly in a photo album or commonplace book with pages ripped out, and even more spectral (because never seen by any human being)... Dr. Thomas Dutton's missing diary, Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin's files on the case, and so on.

Best regards

Chris

[David Orsam]

One of the items is a newspaper clipping of an advertisment for an experienced parlourmaid, presumably meant to be one of Stride's possessions at the time of her death.

The advert states:

"Apply Cox, The Grange, East Barnet".

From the Times of 8 April 1896 we find the announcement of the birth of a daughter to George Hastings Cox of The Grange, East Barnet.

Mr Cox is resident at The Grange, East Barnet in the 1901 census.

In the 1891 census, however, he and his family were living at 12 Gloucester Road, South Hornsey. He is also shown at this address in the 1893 electoral register.

At The Grange, East Barnet, in 1891 we find Sarah Marr living there. In the 1881 census it was Elizabeth Waters who was resident at this address.

I would conclude from this that the newspaper cutting must be dated some time after 1893 and thus could not have been in the possession of Elizabeth Stride when she was murdered in 1888.

[Pcdunn]

"Extraordinary, Holmes!"
"Elementary, Watson."

Plus, why would a former business-woman like Stride be looking for a situation as a house-servant? Definitely a hoax.

By the way, I looked up Professor Postletwait on the Net-- there is an instructor of that name who specializes in Victorian Studies and Literature, oddly enough!

[ChrisGeorge]

One of the items is a newspaper clipping of an advertisment for an experienced parlourmaid, presumably meant to be one of Stride's possessions at the time of her death.

The advert states:

"Apply Cox, The Grange, East Barnet".

From the Times of 8 April 1896 we find the announcement of the birth of a daughter to George Hastings Cox of The Grange, East Barnet.

Mr Cox is resident at The Grange, East Barnet in the 1901 census.

In the 1891 census, however, he and his family were living at 12 Gloucester Road, South Hornsey. He is also shown at this address in the 1893 electoral register.

At The Grange, East Barnet, in 1891 we find Sarah Marr living there. In the 1881 census it was Elizabeth Waters who was resident at this address.

I would conclude from this that the newspaper cutting must be dated some time after 1893 and thus could not have been in the possession of Elizabeth Stride when she was murdered in 1888.

Thanks for offering these fine research notes. More proof that this piece of codology (versus Ripperology ha ha) is not what it is purported to be. Carry on with the good work, David.

Best regards

Chris

[cloak and dagger]

One of the items is a newspaper clipping of an advertisment for an experienced parlourmaid, presumably meant to be one of Stride's possessions at the time of her death.

The advert states:

"Apply Cox, The Grange, East Barnet".

From the Times of 8 April 1896 we find the announcement of the birth of a daughter to George Hastings Cox of The Grange, East Barnet.

Mr Cox is resident at The Grange, East Barnet in the 1901 census.

In the 1891 census, however, he and his family were living at 12 Gloucester Road, South Hornsey. He is also shown at this address in the 1893 electoral register.

At The Grange, East Barnet, in 1891 we find Sarah Marr living there. In the 1881 census it was Elizabeth Waters who was resident at this address.

I would conclude from this that the newspaper cutting must be dated some time after 1893 and thus could not have been in the possession of Elizabeth Stride when she was murdered in 1888.

thanks and what a great piece of research, it's quite obviously a badly concocted piece of ripperania, and worth very little. i just thought people on here would like to see the lenghts some people go to, (for reasons they only know) maybe to make money or to decieve someone, but i still find it curious and vaguely interesting.

[Joshua Rogan]

It's certainly a conversation starter, but it couldn't possibly be totally authentic - the real knife belongs to Niko!

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5557

[cloak and dagger]

It's certainly a conversation starter, but it couldn't possibly be totally authentic - the real knife belongs to Niko!

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5557

thanks , you've got me hooked on the knife thread now, lol

[Disco Stu]

-

Now it's thoroughly debunked, any chance popping the photo out and checking the back to see how old that is?

[cloak and dagger]

Now it's thoroughly debunked, any chance popping the photo out and checking the back to see how old that is?

no problem, it's not exactly the turin shroud lol. i will take the back off tomorrow and report back