How "safe" were the respective murder sites?

[Sam Flynn]

Taken over from the "FBI Profile" thread. A discussion on the comparative "safety" of various murder sites might be interesting, so here's one for a kick-off.

it seems to me that JTR would have had as little as 8 minutes to assault Eddowes, extensively mutilate her throat/neck, eviscerate her (demonstrating anatomical knowledge), remove organs, avoid getting too much blood on himself, extensively disfigure her face, cut away part of her apron, and make good his escape! I think it's reasonable to assume that the killer was something of a risk taker

Not so much of a risk-taker, John. Mitre Square was sparsely populated compared to Berner Street, comprising a number of non-residential premises. Besides, it was much quieter than Dutfield's Yard, and the murder was committed in the darkest part of the Square, nowhere near a busy clubhouse. Furthermore, there were no pipe-smokers, broad-shouldered men, incontinent Poles, doorstepping neighbours, Gladstone-bag clutching salesmen, or donkey-trotting Dim$hitz's going to and fro. Just two policemen on different beats.

If "Jack" was that much of a risk-taker, and Dutfield's Yard was such a "good" place to commit murder, how come he bottled out of the Stride murder so quickly?

[John G]

Taken over from the "FBI Profile" thread. A discussion on the comparative "safety" of various murder sites might be interesting, so here's one for a kick-off.
Not so much of a risk-taker, John. Mitre Square was sparsely populated compared to Berner Street, comprising a number of non-residential premises. Besides, it was much quieter than Dutfield's Yard, and the murder was committed in the darkest part of the Square, nowhere near a busy clubhouse. Furthermore, there were no pipe-smokers, broad-shouldered men, incontinent Poles, doorstepping neighbours, Gladstone-bag clutching salesmen, or donkey-trotting Dim$hitz's going to and fro. Just two policemen on different beats.

If "Jack" was that much of a risk-taker, and Dutfield's Yard was such a "good" place to commit murder, how come he bottled out of the Stride murder so quickly?

Hello Sam,

Firstly, i would argue that you have to take into account the nature of the threat, i.e PC Harvey would have represented a greater threat than, say, Fanny Mortimer! And, of course, if Schwartz evidence is reliable, then he completely ignored the "threat" presented by both Schwartz and Pipeman.

As regards why he bottled out, well, this might be because of the unfortunate interruption of Diemshitz. Or,as I argued earlier, it may simply have been too dark for him to have eviscerated Stride, demonstrating surgical/anatomical skill. or even too dark to see his knife! Or perhaps after the initial adrenaline rush he became concerned that Schwartz/ Pipeman might alert the local beat officer. After all, this was the first and only time in JTR's reign of terror that anyone had actually witnessed a direct assault.

Best wishes,

John

[lynn cates]

wasting time

Hello John. But if the BS story be true, and, as you seem to suggest, he killed Liz, what was happening between 12.45 and 1.00?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Hanbury

Hello Gareth. Good question for a thread.

Doubtless, Hanbury was the riskiest of all.

Cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Hello Gareth. Good question for a thread.

Doubtless, Hanbury was the riskiest of all.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Nail on the head.

MrB

[c.d.]

Why are we assuming that his confidence level or his willingness to take risks was always the same for every murder? Paranoia over being caught and hanged can ebb and flow as well.

c.d.

[MrBarnett]

Why are we assuming that his confidence level or his willingness to take risks was always the same for every murder? Paranoia over being caught and hanged can ebb and flow as well.

c.d.

Hello c.d.,

I'm sure the urge to kill/mutilate ebbed and flowed, and at the flow he was at his most reckless. Which might explain the early start on the night of the double event.

MrB

[lynn cates]

assumption

Hello CD. Perhaps that assumption stems ultimately from "profiles" that attempt to predict the behaviour of past killers based upon present day ones?

If you are suggesting that, perhaps, such assumptions--and, indeed, profiling in general--may not be warranted by the evidence and may lead one erroneously to posit a "series" when in fact none exists, then I think we agree.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I don't think that we have to limit ourselves to killers and/or profiling. A simple study of human nature should lead us to conclude that people are sometimes inconsistent in their level of confidence, their willingness to take risks and their level of paranoia at any given time. You can even throw in choice of luncheon sandwich if you want to.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

human behaviour

Hello CD. Thanks.

So, in other words, jettison the profiles and social science texts and study human nature through behaviour? I like it.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I don't think that we need to jettison profiling. It can be useful as long as we don't take it as Gospel.

c.d.

[RockySullivan]

If you think about the short time and the speed it makes you think....a doctor or a surgeon would not be used to working fast. A doctors method is slow & cautious. A butcher however is used to working as fast as possible on as many animals as possible. It's all about speed for a butcher.

[Fisherman]

Doubtless, Hanbury was the riskiest of all.

Cheers.
LC

No, I don´t think it was. I think Bucks Row was by far the riskiest.

But it all boils down to what kind of risks we are discussing.

In Hanbury Street, he ran a great risk of getting trapped. He did not run that risk in Buck´s Row.

But he ran a much greater risk of being disturbed in his work in Buck´s Row than in any other place! That´s because Buck´s Row offered least seclusion of all the sites.

In Hanbury Street, if I am correct, he killed Chapman at around 3.30 - as per Phillips. At that time, the chance that somebody would come into the yard was very small. So he had seclusion and he stood a very good chance of being left alone for whatever time it took him to butcher Chapman.

In Buck´s Row, he had no seclusion, and he needed to accept that he would be disturbed sooner or later, either by the odd carman on his way to work or by a passing PC.

No such risk was ever involved in the backyard of Hanbury Street. Comparatively, it was a safe murder place, just like room 13 Miller´s Court was.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Bridewell]

After all, this was the first and only time in JTR's reign of terror that anyone had actually witnessed a direct assault.

The first that we know of. There may have been others who witnessed a direct assault but kept silent.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Fish,

And he was disturbed by a very odd carman.

I thought the accepted view was that there were very few carmen, or anyone else for that matter, walking through Bucks Row at that time of the morning.

MrB