Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[lynn cates]

Hear, hear.

Hello Neil.

"The majority of authors in this field write because they wish to share, and expand on the known facts of the case, not because they want to make money."

Hear, hear.

Cheers.
LC

[wolfie1]

Hello Neil.

"The majority of authors in this field write because they wish to share, and expand on the known facts of the case, not because they want to make money."

Hear, hear.

Cheers.
LC

I am sure that every author would claims to be in the majority, who wish to share and expand, yet most on the boards are now condemning Edwards and assuming he is in it only for the money.

[PaulB]

Take the blinkers off.,

There is a tenuos link via mtd which could match thousands of other people a fact you and others seem to want to ignore. Now i wonder why that is. Oh yes let me think, is it because you are a Kosminski proponent?

We have an identical situation here as we had with the Marginalia and that expert. His results were inconclusive yet you and others swore by them as being conclusive. Here you are again apparently suggsting the same conclusive proof here.

Oh, for goodness sake, stop playing your pathetic little games. Nobody is taken in by them and they only make you look sillier than you usually do. You are being asked some direct and simple questions: have you read the book, are you acquainted with how the author addresses the questions you ask, and why do you think you know more than the scientist who conducted the tests?

So cut the crap and answer the questions.

Or people will presumably know what they can metaphorically wipe with your observations.

[m_w_r]

Hi Trevor,

Slight aside. Can you name any Ripper book you've actually read, cover to cover?

Regards,

Mark

[Phil Carter]

Hello Wolfie,

You may find details of a Kosminski that emigrated to Australia here on the boards. If it be the same family I would be interested in this, should you wish to share :-)


kind regards

Phil

[lynn cates]

difference

Hello Wolfie. Thanks.

"I am sure that every author would claim to be in the majority, who wish to share and expand, yet most on the boards are now condemning Edwards and assuming he is in it only for the money."

Those who fall into the latter camp (money) intersperse their work with "100%" and "It's finally solved."

The former use many subjunctives and phrases like, "I leave that for the reader to decide."

See the difference?

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Oh, for goodness sake, stop playing your pathetic little games. Nobody is taken in by them and they only make you look sillier than you usually do. You are being asked some direct and simple questions: have you read the book, are you acquainted with how the author addresses the questions you ask, and why do you think you know more than the scientist who conducted the tests?

So cut the crap and answer the questions.

Or people will presumably know what they can metaphorically wipe with your observations.

The author is not an expert !

I don't know more than the scientist, but I do know enough to raise the concerns that i and others have raised over this DNA.

If they run out of observations, then they can use your book where you suggest Aaron Kosminski is the killer

[Chris]

Excerpts from BBC interview with Jari Louhelainen

I thought it might be helpful to post some excerpts from this interview by Adam Rutherford (a geneticist). Part of it was broadcast in the Radio 4 programme Inside Science on 11 Sept 2014, and an extended version is available in a podcast at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/inscience

First, what Dr Louhelainen said about the part of the work using the genomic (i.e. nuclear rather than mitochondrial) DNA from the area of the shawl that matched a relation of Aaron Kozminski:

16.30

AR: But first, we haven't quite got to the nub of why Russell Edwards and you think that Kozinski [sic] was Jack the Ripper himself. So you've got the sperm, you've got genomic DNA from the sperm sample from this shawl. And then what happens?

JL: Well, that's when the book deadline came. I had the mitochondrial match from the sperm cells*. I was asked to do the hair colour and eye colour as well, which I did actually three days before the book deadline, so it was rushed in. But I wasn't sure if we could do the SNP analysis, because we didn't have means to do that at our university, and I had also blown the budget for this DNA analysis for the book. So this wasn't funded by me or the university. This was funded by Russell himself.

AR: This sounds like you're expressing a level of unsatisfactoriness in terms of how thorough the analysis is, because you wouldn't - in a court case you wouldn't go for hair colour and eye colour - certainly with regards to a guy who's been dead for the best part of a century.

JL: No. But this was done to fortify the findings and give the readers a little glimpse if this is really Aaron himself. If I had come up with red hair and blue eyes I would have been busted, because I would have had to say that, OK it looks like these are not from our suspect, but I can't exclude it now because the hair and eye colour which has been reported in the book actually matches the witness statement - the most reliable witness statement which is known

AR: And what were those hair colour and eye colours?

JL: I think from the top of my head brown and brown.

[* Actually epithelial cells from the area of the possible semen stains.]

Next, on the possibility that the mitochondrial DNA match obtained could have been due by chance:

18.30

AR: And this is - the identification of her as a descendant from the sample from the shawl - of Kozminski - was done using mitochondrial DNA.

JL. Yes, that's it.

AR: And again, same question as before, you're confident that this couldn't have been achieved by contamination, or that the markers you're looking at in the genome are not common enough that they could have been from anyone, or from multiple people.

JL Right. So it's the same case as before. We were using mitochondrial DNA, so that's the resolving power we have. The contamination has been taken care of very carefully [gives details of precautions].

Finally, on the prospects for the publication of a scientific paper on the analysis:

20.40

JL: Of course, my idea was to publish this in a scientific paper, as it says in the book. But all this book sort of related thing came in first, and they wanted to use this evidence - they thought it was good enough for this sort of publication.

AR: And when can we see the peer-reviewed paper. When will that be submitted to a scientific journal, rather than published in a book and the Daily Mail?

JL: Well, I am hoping of course as soon as possible. But I also have a teaching job, a day-to-day job, and I have to find a budget for that as well. So - I'm not sure - Russell might be willing to fund this further, but that's up to him. So in that case I'd need to find an external funding source for this.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

Slight aside. Can you name any Ripper book you've actually read, cover to cover?

Regards,

Mark

Yes the one that destroys many of the old accepted myths surrounding this mystery, and eliminates all those so called prime suspects.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper--Secret-Police-Files-ebook/dp/B00F4QS0H0/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1410600060&sr=1-2&keywords=trevor+marriott

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give it a plug

Oh and I forgot the DVD which goes with it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ripper--Century-Investigation-Recorded-Theatre/dp/B00KNRE4NY/ref=sr_1_26?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1410600290&sr=1-26&keywords=jack+the+ripper

[curious4]

Tis the nature of Dyslexia that they deteriate when I write at speed. Thats why I prefer Ripperology using a camera. Yours Jeff

You do a great job writing, Jeff. As the mother of two dyslectics, I understand this well. Both have degrees (one has two), so don't let anyone put you down.

Best wishes

C4

[Trevor Marriott]

You do a great job writing, Jeff. As the mother of two dyslectics, I understand this well. Both have degrees (one has two), so don't let anyone put you down.

Best wishes

C4

Jeff does a very god job of doing that all on his own

[curious4]

Jeff does a very god job of doing that all on his own

Hello Trevor

"God job"? Didn't realise he was a deity!

[PaulB]

The author is not an expert !

I don't know more than the scientist, but I do know enough to raise the concerns that i and others have raised over this DNA.

If they run out of observations, then they can use your book where you suggest Aaron Kosminski is the killer

The author makes no claims to be an expert, but he has asked and received answers to why the shawl will not contain the DNA of all the people who have handled it over the years and says that the Eddowes mtDNA is a rare strain that limits the number of people with it in London in 1888 to a mere handful. By asking the questions you have, you either haven't read the book or you disagree with what the author says. Which?

My money is on you not having read a word of the book.

You are not and have not been raising concerns about the science. You have been stating that the scientist is wrong because the scientist cannot have linked the mtDNA to Eddowes because there are 400,000 people who's link to the mtDNA. But we are dealing with a DNA expert, which you are not, who apparently doesn't share your opinion. So why are you repeatedly airing that opinion without first finding out what the scientist is actually saying?

And I haven't written a book in which I say that Kosminski is the Ripper, so I assume you haven't read my books before commenting on them either.

As mwr has observed, is there any book you have read from cover to cover?

[Amanda]

21st Century Investigation

Well......

Sorry, have to step in here. Nothing wrong with Trevor plugging his book but after reading it .....

A) Large part of the text is made up of Coroner & Police reports which have previously been published, so nothing new

B) I have personally researched the suspect preferred by Trevor & it seems his evidence & research was lacking. Carl Feigenbaum's real name was Karl Kosch & records of his whereabouts in 1888 can be confirmed in shipping records. He was nowhere near Whitechapel.

C) The name Feigenbaum means 'Fig Tree' in German, so therefore we can presume that Karl gave himself that moniker after visiting Nicaragua, as figs were one of the main fruit exports from there in the 19th century.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do have respect for Trevor's work but I do think that sometimes he jumps the gun. Especially where research is concerned.

Amanda (Note customary head shaking)

[PaulB]

Yes the one that destroys many of the old accepted myths surrounding this mystery, and eliminates all those so called prime suspects.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper--Secret-Police-Files-ebook/dp/B00F4QS0H0/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1410600060&sr=1-2&keywords=trevor+marriott

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give it a plug

Oh and I forgot the DVD which goes with it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ripper--Cent...ack+the+ripper

You actually admit that the only jack the Ripper book you have read from cover to cover is your own! You're actually admitting that?

Amazing.