Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Garry Wroe]

No Garry you saw a psychic program on Kozminski.

That’s odd. Not so long ago you insisted that the programme didn’t exist. You stated quite categorically that I’d made up the whole thing. So which is it?

You googled my name and noted I had made psychic programs many years ago …

I did nothing of the kind. The only time I have ever googled your name was after the present argument commenced, and even that was in an attempt to locate the programme itself. You flatter yourself if you believe that I have any interest in you or your directorial pursuits.

Once again, therefore, you have presented wishful thinking as fact.

And you made a story up trying to score some cheap points, putting incorrect information together.

Wrong again, Sherlock.

I had no reason to make up anything. None whatsoever. If anything the diversion over the psychic programme has served to let you off the hook with regard to the nonsense you were peddling concerning the Ripper’s mode of approach and attack, which not only exposed your criminological ignorance, but your lack of cohesive thought too.

your now digging yourself an even bigger hole trying to get yourself out of the one you dug in the first place..pathetic

Again, wishful thinking masquerading as fact.

[Garry Wroe]

It is a letter written by the Earl of Crawford. It is not dated but its context suggests it was written around the time of the Jack the Ripper scare.

I know what it is.

[Jeff Leahy]

It is just a crazy idea...

Hi Jeff,

"had strong homicidal tendencies" (macnaghten)/ "afterwards… such undoubted signs of homicidal mania" (Sims)/ "afterwards… developed homicidal tendencies" (Griffiths)

Does not sound like a murder/murders. Sounds more like an attack/ attacks.

"the only person who had ever had a good view of the murderer" (Anderson)

"No one ever saw the Whitechapel murderer" (Macnaghten)

This does not sound like much.

Aaron Kozminski “threatening his sister with a knife” (Is it an attack?)

In a case of an attempted murder; Matilda was a victim (she survived) and a witness.

About schizophrenics:

"When identities of victims were analyzed based on a British study, it was reported that 55% of murder actions were towards a family member, 22% were towards someone known and 14% were towards someone not known (8)"

Richard Trenton Chase:

"Two weeks later, he attempted to enter the home of another woman but, finding that her doors were locked, went into her backyard and walked away; Chase later told detectives that he took locked doors as a sign that he was not welcome, but that unlocked doors were an invitation to come inside. While wandering around, he encountered a girl named Nancy Holden, with whom he attended high school. He attempted to get a ride from her, but frightened by his appearance, she refused."

Nancy Holden… someone known…

My problem is: Matilda before the court as a member of the Kozminski family… against her brother Jack the Ripper… or just the witness who saw Aaron Kozminski threatening his sister?

Anderson:

“It sometimes happens that the murderer is known, but evidence is wholly wanting. In such circumstances the French Police would arrest the suspected person, and built up a case against him at their leisure, mainly by admissions extracted from him in repeated interrogations.”

Perhaps, the Seaside Home identification has been the last link of a chain (together with the bloody laundry in Batty Street and the PC near Mitre Square…) and was enough to convict Aaron Kozminski.

I like what Rob House said: “Moral proof“and “moral certainty“ instead of “legal proof“.

Yours Karsten.

Theres still a lot to get my head around here Karsten, its so outside the box its difficult to get my head around… My main worry is that it implies a certain continuity between 1888 and 1891.

I'm seeing it as two completely unrelated set of events one in March 1889 and a seperate event following the Crawford letter July 1890-Feb1891

But I like outside the box. An interesting new theory

Yours Jeff

PS are you suggesting that when Simms and Griffiths say After the crime (Presuming Kelly) he developed homocidal tendencies, relates to events 22 Nov 1888?

[Jeff Leahy]

I know what it is.

You surprise me all the time.

[Jeff Leahy]

That’s odd. Not so long ago you insisted that the programme didn’t exist. You stated quite categorically that I’d made up the whole thing. So which is it?

You made the whole thing up in terms of my involvement…from a reliable source I'm told there was a 'psychic' investigation on Kozminski. I had know idea of its existence why should I.. You attached my name to something I knew nothing about

But you have been caught with your metaphorical trousers round your ankles

now please stick to the ID. I'm not really interested in anything else you have to say I gather this kind of diversionary tactic is your haul mark.

Yours Jeff

[John Bennett]

Sorry if somebody has already mentioned this, but I think the Psychic documentary (referring to Kosminski) that is being debated was 'Killer Contact' which came out a year or two ago.

They apparently contacted Kosminski using some gadget or other in the Princess Alice, as far as I recall. It was pretty awful.

Needless to say, the programme (an American one) had nothing to do with Jeff.

[Jeff Leahy]

Sorry if somebody has already mentioned this, but I think the Psychic documentary (referring to Kosminski) that is being debated was 'Killer Contact' which came out a year or two ago.

They apparently contacted Kosminski using some gadget or other in the Princess Alice, as far as I recall. It was pretty awful.

Needless to say, the programme (an American one) had nothing to do with Jeff.

Many thanks for that clarity John

Ironically the Princess Alice would have been a better choice than the Ten Bells but I'm pleased to say i'm long out of the psychic TV game, it simply paid the mortgage for a while.

I'm hoping we can now 'all' move on, into an interesting discussion on the ID.

Trusting you are both well.

Yours Jeff

[S.Brett]

My main worry is that it implies a certain continuity between 1888 and 1891.

In my scenario, yes!

PS are you suggesting that when Simms and Griffiths say After the crime (Presuming Kelly) he developed homocidal tendencies, relates to events 22 Nov 1888?

Exactly!

It seems to me that "Kosminski" had been the prime suspect after November 1888 (Cox). Before he was a suspect among many others. Maybe already high up on the list (bloody clothes/ Batty Street, PC near Mitre Square) in October 1888. The suspect (October 1888) became the prime suspect (November 1888) after Kelly. But why? What happened? There were no other murders of this kind but a man was captured in Brick Lane who draw a knife. In this context we read about a woman:

“She is stated to be a married woman of good appearance and about 34 years of age”

An exact match with Matilda Lubnowski. Strange...

I feel sure the Seaside Home identification took place after July 1890 (really late). In my scenario Schwartz and Lawende did not recognize Aaron Kozminski in October/November 1888.

Remember:

"No one ever saw the Whitechapel murderer" (Macnaghten)

“had a good view of the murderer” (Anderson)

Did the witness see a murder?

The PC near Mitre Square had a "bad" view of the murderer but did he see a murder?

Jeff, in your messages on Facebook you will find these links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMQ5b5qPwWo

http://www.rottenworks.com/index.php/2013/12/07/killer-contact-jack-the-ripper-s01e01/

Yours.

[pinkmoon]

Am I the only one baffled at how Lawende could've positively identified someone, who he admitted he probably wouldn't recognize again, some seven years after the fact? I'm, of course, referring to Grainger here.

The police didn't have a clue who the ripper was so when you have no suspect ANYTHING must look half decent in the case of Kosminski the fact that he picked up a knife and lived locally made the police look at him maybe they did attempt an identification just in case but to draw the conclusion from this that he was the ripper is just plain wrong.I Just cannot believe that a witness or kosminski would be left in peace if the outcome was "yes it's him but I don't want his death on my concience so I'm not cooperating" that scenario is just to fanciful.The truth of the matter is lawende would never have been able to identify the man he saw that night and I think he told the police that he was only used out of police desperation.I think sir Melville mentions kosminski out of desperation as well when he was asked to compile his now famous memo he couldn't really say" no sorry can't help the police never had a clue " so he puts together a list after scraping the bottom of the barrel at least one person on that list (ostrog) was put on just to make the numbers up!In the case of Druitt some one who he wants to protect has told him something in confidence of that we have no doubt and Druitt is quite close to some of the descriptions Chuck in his suicide and sir Melville thought it's a possibility .

[Jeff Leahy]

sorry cross post cancel

[Scott Nelson]

Am I the only one baffled at how Lawende could've positively identified someone, who he admitted he probably wouldn't recognize again, some seven years after the fact? I'm, of course, referring to Grainger here.

Lawende wasn't named and the source was a single newspaper story. No police reports survive concerning the identity of the Grainger witness.

[Phil Carter]

facts.

A few facts that just have to be stated.

Admission Book record. . Colney Hatch. .etc

Aaron Kosminski
6th Feb 1891
Age 26

(Referring to his mental state)
If first attack ...No
Age on first attack...25
Duration of first attack...6 months (6 years in red ink)
Cause...Unknown. (self abuse added in red ink)
Subject to epilepsy...No
Suicidal...No
Dangerous to others...No
Any relative afflicted with insanity...Not known

1892.
Nov 17th Quiet and well behaved. Only speaks German (Yiddish?)

Now..

The Seaside Home story gets a different twist when the above is considered.

His first attack is aged 25. That's 1890. The attack of insanity..is added in red ink..afterwards. .to lasting 6 years. Originally thought only to have lasted 6 months. He clearly never really recovered. It CANNOT be that he was insane 6 years before 1891 because the attack was originally thought to have lasted only 6 months..which would still be 2 years
after 1888.

Cause of attacks. .unknown. then someone writes in red ink...at a later date...self abuse....!

He is not considered a danger to others..nor himself.

He only speaks German. .or Yiddish.


No doubt each and every one if these facts will now be turned around and tortuously explained away in favour of this innocent lunatic of being a multi-murdering mind of cunning.

Anyone with common sense can only see what it really is.
A set up. A frame up. And the Crawford letter is undated. It does not certainly refer to Aaron Kosminski..nor ANY jew.

Seaside Home? Utter rubbish. Seaside home in Dorset? Oh God..where do I see Abberline's name being edged in here round the back door...or maybe even Druitt.

Utter rubbish. Con job and frame up in my opinion.



Phil

[pinkmoon]

A few facts that just have to be stated.

Admission Book record. . Colney Hatch. .etc

Aaron Kosminski
6th Feb 1891
Age 26

(Referring to his mental state)
If first attack ...No
Age on first attack...25
Duration of first attack...6 months (6 years in red ink)
Cause...Unknown. (self abuse added in red ink)
Subject to epilepsy...No
Suicidal...No
Dangerous to others...No
Any relative afflicted with insanity...Not known

1892.
Nov 17th Quiet and well behaved. Only speaks German (Yiddish?)

Now..

The Seaside Home story gets a different twist when the above is considered.

His first attack is aged 25. That's 1890. The attack of insanity..is added in red ink..afterwards. .to lasting 6 years. Originally thought only to have lasted 6 months. He clearly never really recovered. It CANNOT be that he was insane 6 years before 1891 because the attack was originally thought to have lasted only 6 months..which would still be 2 years
after 1888.

Cause of attacks. .unknown. then someone writes in red ink...at a later date...self abuse....!

He is not considered a danger to others..nor himself.

He only speaks German. .or Yiddish.


No doubt each and every one if these facts will now be turned around and tortuously explained away in favour of this innocent lunatic of being a multi-murdering mind of cunning.

Anyone with common sense can only see what it really is.
A set up. A frame up. And the Crawford letter is undated. It does not certainly refer to Aaron Kosminski..nor ANY jew.

Seaside Home? Utter rubbish. Seaside home in Dorset? Oh God..where do I see Abberline's name being edged in here round the back door...or maybe even Druitt.

Utter rubbish. Con job and frame up in my opinion.



Phil

Like I said before when you have no suspect ANYTHING must look good.

[Phil Carter]

Like I said before when you have no suspect ANYTHING must look good.

Hello Pinkmoon,

Too right. We haven't a real suspect at all.

Personally speaking. I have no fav suspect of any sort. .but this stuff on Kosminski is fairy story stuff. The only reason it is kept afloat is the fear of the JTR balloon going "pop". Reputations too imo.


Phil

[Jeff Leahy]

No doubt each and every one if these facts will now be turned around and tortuously explained away in favour of this innocent lunatic of being a multi-murdering mind of cunning.
Phil

Unfortunately Philip you have always miss understood the nature od Schizophrenia.. While almost every schizophrenic is harmless they are also human beings and it is simply a matter of fact that a very small percentage can and do become dangerous. It is of course exceptionally rare however the Jack the Ripper crimes fit into that category.

Schizophrenia is also a cyclical illness. Sufferers having attacks that last typically 18-22 weeks followed by periods of recovery. And like it or not that is what we appear to know about Aaron Kozminski. That he had periods of lucid recovery as explained by his appearance in court walking the dog.

Yes this is going to be difficult for those of you with blind folds to Anderson's suspect..but there is still a hell of a lot of information yet to surface.

Lets face it there is not another credible suspect so Aaron Kozminski will run and run. In many directions if what i believe will start to take place.

Yours Jeff