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The Apron Again

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  • The Apron Again

    If you look at the drawing of Eddowes's body in situ, you'll see that her clothing has been ripped off and pulled aside by the killer. The apron--which according to the police report was visible at Bishopsgate cop shop--was still tied to her waist when she was found. When she was standing, it sat on top of a chintz skirt, an alpaca skirt, a blue skirt and a petticoat and that's a lot of layers of cloth. But she was supine when found and her clothes had been thrown back to get at her body. That means the apron now lies below all the other garments and becomes the most inaccessible piece of clothing available to the killer should he need a portmanteau/blade-wiper/bandage. More easily got at would be the stuff petticoat or the chemise either of which could have served the same purpose as the apron and would have been on top of the rest of the clothing. So he really wants that piece of apron. Why? Is it stronger material than the chemise or the petticoat? Maybe it will be a better carrier for his trophies? Maybe it's easier to cut than her skirts because he goes along a previous seam. But that's not easy to determine in the dark of Mitre Square.

    The more I think about it, the more I believe that the apron was sliced away before he cut the clothing off the body and pushed it back. The apron was the first thing he wanted not the last, and he cut it off with specific intent. This means that whatever else he used if for--carrying the organs, binding up a figure--was secondary to his original purpose. He may even have bloodied it up himself just to highlight where it had come from. That may explain the odd blood pattern.

    The graffito may or may not have been written by the Ripper, it's a blind alley. But the apron was definitely left there by someone who had taken it off the victim very close to her death, and it wasn't all that easy to get at in the circumstances. If it was taken to put suspicion on someone else, then that suggests that the killer believed that the police might be on to him. Or at least might have asked some questions that he believed might lead to him. We don't see this behaviour on any of the other killings, just this one. So what was going on around the time of the Eddowes killing that might lead the Ripper to think the police were a lot better-off looking at the Jews? I very much doubt it was just anti-semitism on his part. It's more likely, in my mind, that he felt a net closing in and took steps to move it on further down the lake. I would love to know what interviews had been done just before the Eddowes killing. I would really love to know that!

  • #2
    Hi Chava,

    It's all too complicated.

    Why didn't Aaron Kosminski just wipe off his knife in situ before scrawling self-incriminating pearls of wisdom on the back wall of Mr. Taylor's shop?

    Job done.

    Regards,

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon Wood; 11-07-2011, 11:26 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
      Hi Chava,

      It's all too complicated.

      Why didn't Aaron Kosminski just wipe off his knife in situ before scrawling self-incriminating pearls of wisdom on the back wall of Mr. Taylor's shop?

      Job done.

      Regards,

      Simon
      He left the chalk at a predetermined spot, which he had painstakingly sort out as the optimum spot for effect. After going to all that trouble, you'd think he would have scrawled something approaching fathomable and meaningful.

      Anyway, he needed to go home first to arrange his organs on the mantlepiece (with kidney taking pride of place between the grandfather clock and a bronze duck).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
        He left the chalk at a predetermined spot, which he had painstakingly sort out as the optimum spot for effect. After going to all that trouble, you'd think he would have scrawled something approaching fathomable and meaningful.
        I note that you and Simon have sussed the correct objections to the idea that JTR was responsible for this piece of political graffiti.
        allisvanityandvexationofspirit

        Comment


        • #5
          The Apron Again

          Hi Chava
          There is of course one other event before the Eddowes murder, the sighting by Lawende,Levy and Harris.Could this have had an impact on his actions?
          If, like you, we count the graffiti ad a coincidence would it not make more sense for Jack not to be targetting a specific ethnic,social or even pesonal target,more that he was just trying to move suspicion away from himself?
          Personally i don`t think jack was trying anything clever.
          As to the garments,what you say makes sense IF Jack threw the clothes back in a bundle, if he threw them back one at a time it would have had just as much chance for the apron to be off to one side,perhaps protruding from under the other clothes. i don`t think Jack could have ripped each garment together,wouldn`t he have had to hold them one at a time?
          What do you think?
          Keep Well
          Jimi

          Comment


          • #6
            a few points

            Hello Chava.

            "But the apron was definitely left there by someone who had taken it off the victim very close to her death"

            But why must the killer and apron transporter be one and the same chap? Why is it impossible that the killer wiped his hands off, threw it down and someone else (perhaps with a score to settle) transported it?

            "We don't see this behaviour on any of the other killings, just this one."

            Ah, and so a natural inference would be . . . ?

            "It's more likely, in my mind, that he felt a net closing in and took steps to move it on further down the lake."

            Net closing in? But it was 3 weeks (nearly) since Annie was slain. Abberline, as late as September 19, thought they had their man. As yet, there was no "Dear Boss" in the papers and hence no talk of Jack. Why rock the boat needlessly?

            Cheers.
            LC

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Lynn,

              Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

              But why must the killer and apron transporter be one and the same chap? Why is it impossible that the killer wiped his hands off, threw it down and someone else (perhaps with a score to settle) transported it?
              I'd add that the most dangerous time for him was the walk from Mitre Square to Goulston Street rather than thereafter, which makes the crime scene, or very close by, the optimum time to clean up. Unless, he didn't have time, and then we're jumping through hoops to explain someone disturbing him. So, I would rule the knife/hands wiping thing as unlikely.

              It could be entirely opportunistic: e.g. he cuts the apron for access to the body without thought of taking the apron; the organs are dripping and without much thought picks up the nearest thing to him, but then this is contradicts Dr Brown's view of that which the apron had been used for.

              I quite like the idea that the police placed it there simply to suggest this man was very much the MP's responsibility, in an attempt to control political and personal cost.

              Comment


              • #8
                possibly two

                Hello Mac. Notice I did not implicate any particular person--police, or otherwise.

                At any rate, one can certainly suppose that the killer and transporter are 2 different entities.

                Thanks.

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                  Hello Mac. Notice I did not implicate any particular person--police, or otherwise.

                  At any rate, one can certainly suppose that the killer and transporter are 2 different entities.

                  Thanks.

                  Cheers.
                  LC
                  Hello, Lynn.
                  Are you suggesting that the apron piece was transported by someone other than the killer to G. St. to draw attention to the graffito? And that he/she was the author?

                  Best wishes,
                  Steve.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lynn, I did not say the cloth was placed there by the killer. If he had accomplices the cloth was still taken by someone very close to her at the moment of her death or just afterwards. It's possible he had an accomplice, I don't think it's likely but it's possible. However the cloth would have been taken by the killer(s) at the time of the murder wouldn't it?

                    "The natural inference would be...' that this was a one-off in terms of the treatment of the body. If other victims were also missing pieces of their clothing one might infer those pieces were taken as trophies. But there is no evidence that this happened in any of the other killings. So there is a reason he wants that cloth above and beyond using it to relive his happy memories of the event.

                    As to him feeling the net closing in, obviously, from the police point of view, the net was nowhere near closing in. However the police were still investigating Annie Chapman's murder and Polly Nicholl's murder. I assume they were interviewing people. We don't necessarily know everyone they interviewed. I don't see any other incidence of stuff associated with the victims being found away from their bodies. I don't think the Ripper was careless about his own safety. If the cloth was left outside the Goulston Street tenement so as to point the police towards someone living there, then it was left in order to point the police away from someone else. I think it's entirely possible that he felt the police might be looking in his direction and so he thought of taking that cloth and using it in order to direct their attention elsewhere. The police may not have connected the dots but he didn't know that. As I noted above, if you look at the drawing you will see how difficult it would have been to take that piece of apron after he started in on the body. And if he had taken it afterwards he then took care to reposition the skirts back away from the body as they were found instead of back over the body which is where they would have to be to get at the apron in order to rip it away while she was on the ground. Somehow I get the feeling that repositioning the clothing away from the body in order to hide the fact that he'd taken a piece of the apron would be a step too far even for the Ripper.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jimi, the drawing suggests the skirts were thrown back away from the body in a bunch. The apron doesn't appear to stand out. And it was a substantial piece of cloth so difficult to cut away with the clothes in that position.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        not bad

                        Hello Steven.

                        "Are you suggesting that the apron piece was transported by someone other than the killer to G. St. to draw attention to the graffito? And that he/she was the author?"

                        Those are not bad assumptions.

                        Cheers.
                        LC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          odd man out

                          Hello Chava.

                          "'The natural inference would be...' that this was a one-off in terms of the treatment of the body."

                          I like this. There are many subtle but persistent indicators that Kate does not belong with Polly and Annie.

                          Cheers.
                          LC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                            Hello Steven.

                            "Are you suggesting that the apron piece was transported by someone other than the killer to G. St. to draw attention to the graffito? And that he/she was the author?"

                            Those are not bad assumptions.

                            Cheers.
                            LC
                            Hello, Lynn.
                            No doubt I'm being particularly dense today but I'm having difficulty getting my head round this one. Somebody other than the killer removed the apron piece, took it to Goulston St., and wrote the graffito? To what purpose? Do you suggest it was removed from Mitre Sq. (making PC Watkins favourite) or dumped by the killer nearby then picked up by your mystery man (unlikely since he would need to know its significance)?

                            Best wishes,
                            Steve.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              reply

                              Hello Steven.

                              "Somebody other than the killer removed the apron piece, took it to Goulston St., and wrote the graffito?"

                              Why not?

                              "To what purpose?"

                              Incrimination looks good to me.

                              "Do you suggest it was removed from Mitre Sq. (making PC Watkins favourite) or dumped by the killer nearby then picked up by your mystery man (unlikely since he would need to know its significance)?"

                              Well, if I'm a tyro trying to make one killing look like another, and do a botch job and get faecal material on my hands (unlike the journeyman butcher whom I believe did Annie), I'd get some cloth, wipe quickly, and beat a hasty retreat. That means the cloth would be within a close radius of the scene.

                              Know its significance? Well, with all the hub bub beginning to take place, a person of average intelligence could figure it out easily. After all, he'd have plenty of time given when it was eventually found.

                              Cheers.
                              LC

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