Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by Alfie 16 minutes ago.
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by Sherlock Houses 32 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by RockySullivan 37 minutes ago.
Research Related: Henry Kelly - by Paddy 1 hour and 22 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Busy Beaver 2 hours ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (32 posts)
Torso Killings: torso maps - (23 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See? - (15 posts)
Research Related: Henry Kelly - (5 posts)
Non-Fiction: Walter Dew's account...... - (3 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2015, 12:52 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,407
Default Motive(s) of Lechmere-Cross

Hi,

The sources of the Whitechapel murders donīt offer any conclusive evidence for a serial killer driven by a sexual motive.

So we have to keep the hypothesis that the killer had some other motive(s).

As far as Iīve understood, Fisherman believes that his suspect had some motives connected to a dominant mother and to the catīs meat business (please correct me if Iīm wrong).

Are there any historical sources containing evidence for this?

Regards Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 10-11-2015 at 12:59 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:09 PM
GUT GUT is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: I come from a land Down Under
Posts: 7,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi,

The sources of the Whitechapel murders donīt offer any conclusive evidence for a serial killer driven by a sexual motive.

So we have to keep the hypothesis that the killer had some other motive(s).

As far as Iīve understood, Fisherman believes that his suspect had some motives connected to a dominant mother and to the catīs meat business (please correct me if Iīm wrong).

Are there any historical sources containing evidence for this?

Regards Pierre

Pierre I would suggest that there is more evidence of Jack being a sexual killer than would support any other motive.

Even outside that isn't a simple hatred for women more than enough motive.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:10 PM
GUT GUT is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: I come from a land Down Under
Posts: 7,334
Default

Especially hatred of women of a certain class.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:18 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Pierre I would suggest that there is more evidence of Jack being a sexual killer than would support any other motive.

Even outside that isn't a simple hatred for women more than enough motive.
How interesting,

please give references to this.

"Simple hatred for women" goes for a lot of men but they arenīt serial killers.

Regards Pierre
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:26 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 17,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi,

The sources of the Whitechapel murders donīt offer any conclusive evidence for a serial killer driven by a sexual motive.

So we have to keep the hypothesis that the killer had some other motive(s).

As far as Iīve understood, Fisherman believes that his suspect had some motives connected to a dominant mother and to the catīs meat business (please correct me if Iīm wrong).

Are there any historical sources containing evidence for this?

Regards Pierre
What Fisherman says is that many serialists have a background involving an absent father and a domineering mother.

Then Fisherman points to how Charles Lechmere had a lacking father figure, who left the family when Charles was but an infant - or perhaps even before he was born.
After that, Fisherman notices how Maria Louisa, Lechmeres mother changed jobs a number of times and married on three occasions, two of them seemingly bigamously, and how she somehow worked out a solution with Charles where she had one of his daughters staying with her. At that stage, Fisherman thought "Wow, that seems to be one resourceful woman"!

Fisherman then thought about how nobody got killed as long as Lechmere was living in close geographical proximity to his mother, whereas the murders started once he moved away from her.

Now, being the seasoned crusader that Fisherman is, he would NOT say that it iss a proven thing that Charles must have been swayed by his fathers absense to become a killer. Nor would he say that it is a proven thing that Lechmereīs mother WAS domineering.
He would only say: Absent father figure. SEEMINGLY resourceful mother, possibly domineering. On the surface a good fit for the sort of background many serialists have. End of.

Fisherman does not think that being a cats meat woman makes you a serial killer, or that your kids will become serialists. Maria Louisa is listed as a cats meat woman in the 1891 census, and Charles Lechmereīs family was deeply involved in the business.
Fisherman knows that sociological studies have been made, showing how working with dead bodies, carcasses, sometimes desensitizes those who do so. Fisherman also knows that there is a correlation between slaughteries and criminality - once a town gets involved in the slaughtery business, it seems the criminal rates of physical violence rises. Experts speculate that this is knit to the desensitizing earlier mentioned.

Fisherman is also known to have noted the fact that when the Pinchin Street torso was found, in September 1889, Lechmereīs mother lived in 147 Cable Street, a short distance from where the Pinchin Street torso was dumped. He has also noted that Charles Lechmere once lived in Pinchin Street, as a boy. Fisherman also knows that cats meat women employed fine-toothed saws and sharp knives in their line of business - the very tools that were used to take the Pinchin Street victim apart.

From this Fisherman does not conclude that Lechmere must have been the killer, employing his mothers apartment as he cut up the body. He merely points to the opportunity that was seemingly there, and says that it does not detract as such from the possibilities to form a case against Lechmere.

Thatīs about it. Try not to misunderstand it, if you please!

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-11-2015 at 01:29 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2015, 01:38 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,407
Default

Hi Fisherman,

I donīt see any possibility to misunderstand this. Itīs clear enough to me.

Another thing then - have you found any other sources connected to him that could explain why the murders stopped?

Regards Pierre
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2015, 02:04 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 819
Default

Just an added point of interest
I believe there was also a cat meat seller living at 29 Hanbury Street
__________________
You can lead a horse to water.....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2015, 09:26 PM
Barnaby Barnaby is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 677
Default

Hi Pierre,

I don't think the points Fisherman makes here pertain necessarily to motive. More like risk-factors to be a serial killer.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2015, 09:51 PM
belinda belinda is offline
*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 618
Default

Mutilations around the genital regions would imply a sexual motive.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-2015, 10:07 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 17,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi Fisherman,

I donīt see any possibility to misunderstand this. Itīs clear enough to me.

Another thing then - have you found any other sources connected to him that could explain why the murders stopped?

Regards Pierre
"Could"? Just about anything could explain why they stopped - if they stopped. But since we donīt know that they DID stop, it would be wrong to postulate that an explanation was needed.
Otherwise, things like having found another outlet for whatever it was that caused him to kill could offer an explanation as could some sort of major event in his life that had a mental impact on him.

It will always be a rather futile exercise in conjecture to discuss it, since we do not knpw what he was all about. We have him on place at the Nichols murder, he is surrounded by anomalies and what looks like a set of lies, so he makes an excellent bid for the killers role. That is what we can say. If and why he stopped killing is another matter that is not possible to provide with any tailormade answer.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.