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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Ann Nichols

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  #11  
Old 03-09-2016, 02:03 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Because I knew you thought there was
I did not! (This can go on for quite some time. Or not.)
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2016, 06:45 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Billiou View Post
Hi,

I am a newcomer to the site. One of my main hobbies is Genealogy. In Genealogy research it is stressed that you have to go back to the primary source of an event, where possible, and you should try to have two separate sources as proof of each event.
Consulting the primary source can prevent misinformation, such as an incorrect transcription of a document, from corrupting the search and leading you down an incorrect path.
I have been reading the newspaper reports of the Mary Ann Nichols Inquest and various threads to do with her murder on the site. It seems to me a lot of time is taken up with matters that refer to, for example, one newspaper report, when the matter could be resolved by looking at another newspaper or consulting the threads. In other words the newspaper's reporting of the Inquest cannot be taken at face value as being exactly what was said or had occurred, and this leads to false leads and confusion.
From what I have read in Casebook, there is no actual Inquest record ie the primary source, so we are dealing with multiple secondary sources?
So another question I have is, has anyone ever gone through the various newspaper Inquest reports and tried to come up with one, overall, as fairly accurate as we can be, record of the Inquest ie using all the newspaper reports, and therefore clarifying the confusions?
Cheers
Bill
Hi Bill,

You point out a big problem within "ripperology".

The best way to solve it is to use only primary sources. You find many of them in The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook written by Evans & Skinner.

Kind regards, Pierre
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2016, 06:52 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Billiou View Post
Yes, that is how I feel about the press reports. Is it at least worth a try? It may at least remove the obvious mistakes
eg
Comment by Cross about hearing a policeman in Buck's Row: Morning Advertiser: “but I said, “No, let us go and tell a policeman””, The Star: “Let's go on till we see a policeman and tell him.” The Daily Telegraph: “Just then they heard a policeman coming.” The Times: Does not report any form of this comment. Lloyd's Weekly: Reports the account from the Daily Telegraph. East London Observer: Does not report any form of this comment. The Daily News: Reports the account from The Daily Telegraph. The Echo: “You had better go on, and if you see a policeman tell him.” The Evening Post: “They had better go on until they saw a policeman.”
Possible Conclusion: The reporter from The Daily Telegraph obviously misheard and misreported the comment about going to tell a policeman and it is incorrect to attribute this to Cross.
I agree that a consensus on this site would be impossible, but if the obvious mistakes are identified they could be removed? More contentious items would of course be harder.
Cheers
Bill
Hi Bill,

the original inquest papers for the murder on Polly Nichols have not been found, there are just journalists work on them.

If you would like to compare the earliest newspaper articles with a transcribed inquest source you can use The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook by Evans & Skinner, where you find some of the original inquest papers in transcription.

Regards, Pierre
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2016, 09:43 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi Bill,

the original inquest papers for the murder on Polly Nichols have not been found, there are just journalists work on them.

If you would like to compare the earliest newspaper articles with a transcribed inquest source you can use The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook by Evans & Skinner, where you find some of the original inquest papers in transcription.

Regards, Pierre
Ive seen you reference Evan and Skinner lots here Pierre, would it have any impact on your serial killer theorizing if you knew that one of these authors is on record here with the opinion that just 2, perhaps 3 of the Canonicals should be attributed to a single individual?
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2016, 02:33 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Ive seen you reference Evan and Skinner lots here Pierre, would it have any impact on your serial killer theorizing if you knew that one of these authors is on record here with the opinion that just 2, perhaps 3 of the Canonicals should be attributed to a single individual?
I read them only as transcribers of original sources and I do not read their own ideas.

Regards, Pierre
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2016, 02:55 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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For anyone interested in putting it all together, here is my list of what I perceive to be the different reporters at the Nichols inqueest on 3 September 1888. I find this list helpful because it ensures that I avoid looking at what is basically the same report more than once.

Reporter A (The Times)
Reporter B (The Star)
Reporter C (Daily News/East London Observer/Daily Chronicle, Illustrated Police News/Eastern Argus & Borough of Hackney Times)
Reporter D (Morning Post, Morning Advertiser, Evening Standard)
Reporter E (Daily Telegraph, Lloyd's Weekly News, Weekly Dispatch)
Reporter F (The Echo)
Reporter G (Evening News)
Reporter H (Evening Post)
Reporter I (Globe)
Reporter J (Birmingham Daily Post, Pall Mall Gazette)


Some of these were undoubtedly press agency reporters. The oblique strokes between the newspapers in C indicate that there are some significant differences between the reports but I still believe them to have come from the same source.

Some of the reports, especially from the Times, were syndicated and appeared in regional newspapers which are not included in the above.
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2016, 04:32 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
For anyone interested in putting it all together, here is my list of what I perceive to be the different reporters at the Nichols inqueest on 3 September 1888. I find this list helpful because it ensures that I avoid looking at what is basically the same report more than once.

Reporter A (The Times)
Reporter B (The Star)
Reporter C (Daily News/East London Observer/Daily Chronicle, Illustrated Police News/Eastern Argus & Borough of Hackney Times)
Reporter D (Morning Post, Morning Advertiser, Evening Standard)
Reporter E (Daily Telegraph, Lloyd's Weekly News, Weekly Dispatch)
Reporter F (The Echo)
Reporter G (Evening News)
Reporter H (Evening Post)
Reporter I (Globe)
Reporter J (Birmingham Daily Post, Pall Mall Gazette)


Some of these were undoubtedly press agency reporters. The oblique strokes between the newspapers in C indicate that there are some significant differences between the reports but I still believe them to have come from the same source.

Some of the reports, especially from the Times, were syndicated and appeared in regional newspapers which are not included in the above.
Hi David,

Are you specialized in the reliability and validity of different newspapers? If so, I have a question for you.

Regards, Pierre
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2016, 10:55 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

Are you specialized in the reliability and validity of different newspapers? If so, I have a question for you.
Hi Pierre, I certainly am specialized in the reliability and validity of different newspapers, whatever that actually means. How can I be of assistance?
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:42 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
Hi Pierre, I certainly am specialized in the reliability and validity of different newspapers, whatever that actually means. How can I be of assistance?
Great! I have absolutely no knowledge as to the reliability of the newspapers in 1888, and I am very suspicious about everything I read in them.

Do you happen to know anything at all about a newspaper called Sunderland Daily Echo?

Regards, Pierre
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:56 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

Do you happen to know anything at all about a newspaper called Sunderland Daily Echo?
I have heard of a newspaper called the Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette, Pierre.
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