Annie Chapman Descendants

[Neal Shelden]

Sadly, Chava, many of the victims' children seem to have become estranged, or even actively distanced themselves, from their less-than-ideal mothers long before their deaths. This is not quite the case with Annie's children, who either pre-deceased her, or ended up being taken into care. There is the tale that Annie's surviving daughter ended up in a circus, but I shouldn't be surprised if this were a white lie, or cover-up, for her also having been "taken away" from her mother.

Yeah Sam, the story about Annie Georgina Chapman joining the circus was met with laughter by the Chapman lady. There was a more credible story passed down by the family though, that Annie Georgina had at once worked for one of the ladies of the court. Unfortunately, they know no more than that. I'm also still interested to know about what happened to her brother the disabled John Alfred Chapman and hope to find out him oneday too.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Neal,

I'm also still interested to know about what happened to her brother the disabled John Alfred Chapman and hope to find out him oneday too.

I suppose you've already noted the "John Chapman", aged 12 (looks like 11 amended to 12), resident at St Vincent's Industrial School, Dartford, in the 1891 Census?

[Neal Shelden]

Hi Neal,I suppose you've already noted the "John Chapman", aged 12 (looks like 11 amended to 12), resident at St Vincent's Industrial School, Dartford, in the 1891 Census?

No Sam, because John Alfred was living with his aunts in Knightsbridge.

[Sam Flynn]

No Sam, because John Alfred was living with his aunts in Knightsbridge.

I evidently read too much into your saying that you wanted to find out what happened to him, Neal.

Now, in the true tradition of Ripperology I should perhaps argue that the "John Alfred Chapman" in Knightsbridge was in fact a false name, and that in reality he was the illegitimate child of Princess Alice following an affair with the very same milkman whose shop Mrs Maxwell visited on the morning of Kelly's death.

Instead, I'll just say "Ta!"

[Neal Shelden]

I evidently read too much into your saying that you wanted to find out what happened to him, Neal.

Now, in the true tradition of Ripperology I should perhaps argue that the "John Alfred Chapman" in Knightsbridge was in fact a false name, and that in reality he was the illegitimate child of Princess Alice following an affair with the very same milkman whose shop Mrs Maxwell visited on the morning of Kelly's death.

Instead, I'll just say "Ta!"

Did he have blue plaque too

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Neal!

No Sam, because John Alfred was living with his aunts in Knightsbridge.

Interesting. Now, one could make a following theory;

Mary Kelly told about a woman in Knightsbridge. And some Eastenders told she had a boy with her at times.

So, it was John Alfred, and he was really connected with Annie, and thereby...

Aaargh, I'm not gifted enough to write for Hollywood. Or even to a b-class tv-movie company!

All the best
Jukka

[Neal Shelden]

Hello Neal!



Interesting. Now, one could make a following theory;

Mary Kelly told about a woman in Knightsbridge. And some Eastenders told she had a boy with her at times.

So, it was John Alfred, and he was really connected with Annie, and thereby...

Aaargh, I'm not gifted enough to write for Hollywood. Or even to a b-class tv-movie company!

All the best
Jukka

Hey Jukka, send it a to a b-class exhibition in the Docklands

[Hellrider]

after a long absence, here is my comeback post on this board...

hey Neal, you mentioned several of the victims' descendants and when they died. Could you maybe post their exact dates of birth and death as far as you have them, just for information's sake because I have lost the overview somehow...

thanks in advance

[Neal Shelden]

after a long absence, here is my comeback post on this board...

hey Neal, you mentioned several of the victims' descendants and when they died. Could you maybe post their exact dates of birth and death as far as you have them, just for information's sake because I have lost the overview somehow...

thanks in advance

Sorry that I can't actually do this as I am sure you can understand that it might compromise the descendants rights to only reveal information if they wish me too.
I can tell you that Maureen who sometimes posts on these boards is my connection on Mary Ann Nichols, she lives in Canada, and her Great Grandfather was Edward John Nichols the son of Mary Ann Nichols. Edward had a daughter Lilian, who also had a daughter Lilian, who was Maureen's mother.
The other Nichols descendant, the Granddaughter of Alice Esther daughter of Mary Ann does not wish to have any further communication about her connection to Mary Ann Nichols.
The Chapman descendants do not wish to have any family information about them revealed, but I can say that they are descendants of Annie Georgina Chapman, Annie Chapman's daughter.
On Eddowes I am in communication with descendants of Catherine Eddowes' daughter Annie Phillips. Josephine is a Great Granddaughter of Annie Phillips via her daughter Catherine. Jean, Ian, and Susan, are all grandchildren of Ellen Phillips, another Annie Phillips daughter. And Tracey is a Great Granddaughter of Thomas Phillips a son of Annie Phillips.
Sorry I can't be more specific but it's really not advisable to make family dates public unless they themselves wish the information to made availble.

[Hellrider]

I see the bad position you are in there...didn't think about that in depth..sorry Neal.

already fourth generation after Polly Nichols...they all must have had children at a relatively young age.

[Neal Shelden]

I see the bad position you are in there...didn't think about that in depth..sorry Neal.

already fourth generation after Polly Nichols...they all must have had children at a relatively young age.

Tracey the Eddowes descendant, her children are six generations after Catherine, and it really brings it all down to earth when you see the little ones drinking their McDonalds milkshake and wearing the latest fashions not caring much that their ancestor died the way she did in another era.

[Hellrider]

That's what it all comes down to in the end, I guess...time, what is time?

[Suzi]

Hi Neal-
Firstly that's really sad about the Annie connection...but 81 aint a bad innings......

Just finished 'The book' as part of my bumper birthday present (OK a bit early but hey!).

Now,John Arthur can't just have disappeared totally into the ether can he?..There must be someone who may, or may not want to admit to be related, or more to the point, there may be someone who hasn't got a clue that there's any connection at all that's lurking about in Tesco/McDonalds (God help 'em!) or wherever- oblivious to their heritage!

I Loved the Eddowes connection/photographs (!) though they're absolutely amazing...there's something about that top lip/cheek bones that can't quite be dismissed IMHO.

ASIDE (Now- as we all know Mrs Maxwell was right -when she saw MJK with that little crippled boy, allegedly a bastard child of Prince Eddy chatting to the bloke in the tartan and some floosies outside Ringers about 10 ish..........some selling chestnuts even hehe )

Sorry

Suzi x

[Neal Shelden]

Hi Neal-
Firstly that's really sad about the Annie connection...but 81 aint a bad innings......

Just finished 'The book' as part of my bumper birthday present (OK a bit early but hey!).

Now,John Arthur can't just have disappeared totally into the ether can he?..There must be someone who may, or may not want to admit to be related, or more to the point, there may be someone who hasn't got a clue that there's any connection at all that's lurking about in Tesco/McDonalds (God help 'em!) or wherever- oblivious to their heritage!

I Loved the Eddowes connection/photographs (!) though they're absolutely amazing...there's something about that top lip/cheek bones that can't quite be dismissed IMHO.

ASIDE (Now- as we all know Mrs Maxwell was right -when she saw MJK with that little crippled boy, allegedly a bastard child of Prince Eddy chatting to the bloke in the tartan and some floosies outside Ringers about 10 ish..........some selling chestnuts even hehe )

Sorry

Suzi x

She was almost mid-nineties actually Suzi, a better innings than any England cricketer could ever hope for
Hope you enjoyed the book...
It's only a worry as to how far paralysed John Alfred was, it probably wasn't common to get married and have children for cripples in those days but i'm not resigned to that?

Aside the Aside, yes wasn't Prince Eddy a drinking pal of the famous diarist James Maybrick and weren't they both painted together by Walter Sickert the famous artist of many a bad painting, or did they all go on holiday together that autumn because they suspected some gullible fools would blame them for the murders

Neal

[Hellrider]

Aside the Aside, yes wasn't Prince Eddy a drinking pal of the famous diarist James Maybrick and weren't they both painted together by Walter Sickert the famous artist of many a bad painting, or did they all go on holiday together that autumn because they suspected some gullible fools would blame them for the murders

You as you say it..sounds in fact more plausible than any other solution to the case. seeing the fact that we will probably never find THE solution to it. At least not until Judgement Day when the dead are called forth to rise and give their names and deeds to the Supreme Judge