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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman)

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  #501  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:52 PM
Paddy Goose Paddy Goose is offline
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Originally Posted by Batman View Post
The quote was a different fact involving Chapman dressing like a sailor when in the dock in court.
You didn't answer my question. To repeat, I asked you, since you used a quote from her book, if you developed your conviction that Klosowski (Chapman) makes a good Ripper suspect after reading Helena's book. After. You may answer at your convenience, please.

It's quite interesting really, as Helena posted extensively here when she began her research.

Paddy
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  #502  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:31 PM
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Like I said, he was an arse, but he didn't kill those people, did he? And, of those he killed, he didn't slowly poison them to death or gas them. He didn't kill some in the street, or lure them into his truck to kill them at a remote location etc, etc. No - when he killed, his MO was pretty darned constant throughout.

There is no parallel between Rader and your theoretical killer who so altered his methods that he went from the rapid throat-cutting and evisceration of strangers in public to the slow, bloodless poisoning of partners at home.
If you believe that, having watched the YouTube video, then ok. I can't convince you that he got his emotional satisfaction this way instead which is all I am going to present on the matter of changing MO and Signature, the BTK example. You have 14 years to account for then, but I have accounted for them by demonstrating he did something else, which didn't even involve murder.

There is no barrier preventing JtR also committing crimes involving poisoning. Certainly not in the professional literature. It is just an opinion not based on any modern forensic psychology.
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  #503  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Paddy Goose View Post
You didn't answer my question. To repeat, I asked you, since you used a quote from her book, if you developed your conviction that Klosowski (Chapman) makes a good Ripper suspect after reading Helena's book. After. You may answer at your convenience, please.

It's quite interesting really, as Helena posted extensively here when she began her research.

Paddy
I went into Helena's book to learn about all the mistakes made surrounding Chapman which she appears to have done quite well in correcting.

Did it exonerate Chapman as a potential ripper candidate? No. In fact, there were many more things I learned, such as his banned books in a sort of mid-wife collection in the small selection he had, his affinity with sailing and the reasons for murdering his partners, which I thought was always financial, but isn't. Also, the psychological problems he had with the appearance of a Jew which it seems he used sometimes to his advantage pretending to be Jewish even though he wasn't. It is not specifically a problem to him alone, but for many people like him in Whitechapel, however, Chapman seems to have experienced the highs and lows between pretending to be a Jew and then pretending not to be one and being called one all the same.

I recommend the book, but Chapman still ends up being all the more a candidate whom Sugden put forward as his #1 choice and I still think Sugden could very well be right.
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  #504  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:54 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I went into Helena's book to learn about all the mistakes made surrounding Chapman which she appears to have done quite well in correcting.

Did it exonerate Chapman as a potential ripper candidate? No. In fact, there were many more things I learned, such as his banned books in a sort of mid-wife collection in the small selection he had, his affinity with sailing and the reasons for murdering his partners, which I thought was always financial, but isn't. Also, the psychological problems he had with the appearance of a Jew which it seems he used sometimes to his advantage pretending to be Jewish even though he wasn't. It is not specifically a problem to him alone, but for many people like him in Whitechapel, however, Chapman seems to have experienced the highs and lows between pretending to be a Jew and then pretending not to be one and being called one all the same.

I recommend the book, but Chapman still ends up being all the more a candidate whom Sugden put forward as his #1 choice and I still think Sugden could very well be right.
hey batman
I thought you were advocating a cop as the ripper since one of the reasons is they would need detailed knowledge of the area to avoid detection.


Chapman had only been in WC a couple of months before the ripper murders correct? this is one of my check marks against him, as I think the ripper knew those streets like the back of his hand.Is a couple months long enough to get to know the area in your opinion?
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  #505  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:31 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Chapman had only been in WC a couple of months before the ripper murders correct?
It's conceivable that the murders had already started before he moved into the area, or even that the series had ended before then. All we can know for certain is that he was living at 126 Cable Street in the first two weeks of December 1888. This is because his Cable Street barber's shop was listed in the Post Office directory of 1889, and the directory was still accepting submissions up until 14th December 1888, IIRC.

Even if he had been living in Cable Street during the Ripper series, it was some way out of being the epicentre of the murders, as I noted earlier. One consequence of this, of course, is that a killer based in Cable Street would have had further to walk in order to find a victim. More crucially, he would have been out in the open for longer before he could get safely home, with blood and organs on his person and the police out looking for him.

To give us an idea of what this implies, here's a quick and dirty Google Maps view of the canonical murder sites and their relationship to 126 Cable Street (red star at bottom right), together with approximate walking times. In only one case, that of Liz Stride, was he within a truly short distance of a murder:

Name:  Cable Street.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  127.6 KB

I find it rather hard to believe that a comparative newcomer to an area like Whitechapel would commit such audacious crimes knowing that he'd face a 15-20 minute walk - at least once, apparently, in daylight - before reaching the saftety of home.
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  #506  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:40 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I went into Helena's book to learn about all the mistakes made surrounding Chapman which she appears to have done quite well in correcting.
I should point out that I'd corrected quite a number of them before. (No disrespect to Helena at all; her book is magnificent, and her research covered a lot more ground than mine.)
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  #507  
Old 10-15-2018, 03:12 PM
Batman Batman is online now
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hey batman
I thought you were advocating a cop as the ripper since one of the reasons is they would need detailed knowledge of the area to avoid detection.


Chapman had only been in WC a couple of months before the ripper murders correct? this is one of my check marks against him, as I think the ripper knew those streets like the back of his hand.Is a couple months long enough to get to know the area in your opinion?
I use to think Kozminski was the best candidate and technically is with Swanson which is a big thing with the caveat others seem to disagree with this. Before that was Chapman and I still think is a good candidate. I'm investigating the possibility of a PC because the evidence indicates inside knowledge.
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  #508  
Old 10-15-2018, 03:22 PM
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"I find it rather hard to believe that a comparative newcomer to an area like Whitechapel would commit such audacious crimes knowing that he'd face a 15-20 minute walk - at least once, apparently, in daylight - before reaching the saftety of home."

Hello Sam,

But wouldn't a couple of dry runs using different routes overcome that problem?

c.d.
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  #509  
Old 10-15-2018, 03:34 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I use to think Kozminski was the best candidate and technically is with Swanson which is a big thing with the caveat others seem to disagree with this. Before that was Chapman and I still think is a good candidate. I'm investigating the possibility of a PC because the evidence indicates inside knowledge.
"Best" and "good" are pretty relative. None of the suspects are great. Some are simply better than others.

c.d.
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  #510  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:59 PM
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"Best" and "good" are pretty relative. None of the suspects are great. Some are simply better than others.

c.d.
Sure. I would agree with that.

With respect to your other point above, there appears to be a radial explanation to the crimes in terms of geoprofiling putting JtR in the middle of it all.
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