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  #1  
Old 03-12-2018, 06:33 AM
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The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Default Curious case of a H Division Bobby.........

Stumbled across this, whilst researching something else.

Thought is might be of interest..................

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...read#highlight


What was PC38HR Thomas WHITBREAD doing in A Division (I assume he must have been on duty)?

What is also interesting is that the only Thomas WHITBREAD I can find is 85434 Thomas WHITBREAD, joined 31.10.1898 M Division retired 23.01.1915 M Division. He'd also previously served during the Boer War.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:53 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...read#highlight


What was PC38HR Thomas WHITBREAD doing in A Division (I assume he must have been on duty)?
I note that he says that he saw her throw the stone, but nothing is said about his having arrested her. I do wonder if he was off-duty at the time, and just happened to witness the crime.
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:02 AM
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I note that he says that he saw her throw the stone, but nothing is said about his having arrested her. I do wonder if he was off-duty at the time, and just happened to witness the crime.

Have done a bit more digging into this case (and putting aside the fact that he didn't actually see her throwing the stone for a minute). From what I've been able to ascertain there was only one officer called Thomas WHITBREAD and he served his entire service in M Division? So I cannot account for why he has a H Division (reserve) collar number. However the fact that he was a reserve might suggest that he was transferred to A Division for some reason (I assume counter-suffragette activity). Although why he wasn't given a A Division number for this purpose is a puzzle, as surely working in A Division with a H Division number would attract attention, unless he was in plain clothes perhaps? I would suggest that he kept his number in the same why that Alfred LONG did in 1888, but the purposes for the reinforcement of bobbies during the Ripper period would I suspect be different than for the suffragette situation?

Certainly curious I wonder whether anything in the press might shine some light on it? As this was after all a high profile case.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:55 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Famous names, certainly. Interesting link, Cat, thank you! "A mighty conspiracy"-- indeed! Lol...
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:49 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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There was nothing unusual about an officer from one division being on duty in another division, especially in Central London, where it wouldn't have attracted any attention. A single division simply didn't have the resources to police large meetings, marches or demonstrations, so men were often called in from all over London to assist on such occasions.

During the evening of 21 November 1911, from about 8pm, there was a demonstration organised by the Women's Social and Political Union outside the Houses of Parliament. Over 200 arrests were made in a two hour period. The number of officers policing the demonstration can be gauged from the report of the demo in the next morning's Guardian:

"…all the approaches to the House were guarded and double guarded by thick hedges of men. The roadway by St Margaret's had not only a treble line but some mounted men also who took the first brunt of the attack. By Old Palace Yard there was another embattled line, and all the minor approaches had their defences. It was not surprising therefore that with one exception none of the women even got near the doors of the House."

PC Thomas Whitbread arrested Sarah Bennett at shortly before 8pm on 21 November 1911 in Parliament Street, having seen her throw a stone, which broke a window of the offices of the London and North Western Railway (after she had unsuccessfully attempted to smash a window of the Aerated Bread Company's shop with another stone).

As it happens, the Proceedings of the Central Criminal Court contains an error: Thomas Whitbread was PC 38MR not HR.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
There was nothing unusual about an officer from one division being on duty in another division, especially in Central London, where it wouldn't have attracted any attention. A single division simply didn't have the resources to police large meetings, marches or demonstrations, so men were often called in from all over London to assist on such occasions.

During the evening of 21 November 1911, from about 8pm, there was a demonstration organised by the Women's Social and Political Union outside the Houses of Parliament. Over 200 arrests were made in a two hour period. The number of officers policing the demonstration can be gauged from the report of the demo in the next morning's Guardian:

"…all the approaches to the House were guarded and double guarded by thick hedges of men. The roadway by St Margaret's had not only a treble line but some mounted men also who took the first brunt of the attack. By Old Palace Yard there was another embattled line, and all the minor approaches had their defences. It was not surprising therefore that with one exception none of the women even got near the doors of the House."

PC Thomas Whitbread arrested Sarah Bennett at shortly before 8pm on 21 November 1911 in Parliament Street, having seen her throw a stone, which broke a window of the offices of the London and North Western Railway (after she had unsuccessfully attempted to smash a window of the Aerated Bread Company's shop with another stone).

As it happens, the Proceedings of the Central Criminal Court contains an error: Thomas Whitbread was PC 38MR not HR.
Not so curious then after all. Still an interesting case mind.
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