Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Suspect Discussion: Sergeant Thick's Sketchy Connections? - by Emma Carew 24 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Varqm 3 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Varqm 3 hours ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: Lechmere was Jack the Ripper - by Herlock Sholmes 4 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Was the ripper and also the torsomans crimes totally non sexual in nature? - by Herlock Sholmes 4 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Was the ripper and also the torsomans crimes totally non sexual in nature? - by Yabs 4 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: Lechmere was Jack the Ripper - (40 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (13 posts)
Torso Killings: torso maps - (10 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Was the ripper and also the torsomans crimes totally non sexual in nature? - (9 posts)
Rippercast: Colin Wilson: Jack the Ripper Conference in Ipswich, 1996 - (1 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Sergeant Thick's Sketchy Connections? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #2501  
Old 03-12-2015, 02:54 PM
Kerry1983 Kerry1983 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
So does it have a skylight or a normal window?


I agree and would be interested in other people's views.

Foot proposes that Hanratty slept in the bathroom because it explains how he could have stayed at Ingledene when all the bedrooms were occupied.
Also, i think i've read somewhere that Hanratty claimed he could hear the trains from where he slept? Is this correct?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2502  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:10 PM
NickB NickB is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 902
Default

Yes he said that.

The landlady, Grace Jones, confirmed in court that there was a bed in the bathroom.

But she said room number 4 was available that week for casual visitors. Joe Sayle (Alexei Sayle’s dad) testified that he stayed in room 4 on the nights of 21, 22 and 23 August.

A newspaper report of her evidence:
part 1
part 2
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2503  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:14 PM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Default

Hello Kerry1983 and welcome to the forum.

Hanratty said in evidence that he had a room at the back of the house, and that he did not bother to draw the curtains. He said that when he awoke he could see a small courtyard.

Is it possible to see the rear courtyard from the bathroom on the top floor.

You say that the green bath was not an attic room, but a room on the third floor.

As Foot describes Ingledene;
On the ground floor at the front is the dining room.
On the first floor there were 4 of the 6 letting bedrooms; rooms 1,2,4 and 6.
On the second floor 2 more letting bedrooms; rooms 3 and 5.


Mrs Grace Jones in her evidence is reported to call the bathroom as being in the "attic" which is why we have been calling it an attic bathroom. You say, however, that it is just a room on the third floor. Were there any other rooms on the third floor. Do you know is any building alterations have been made to Ingledene to alter the room configuration.

If any of Hanratty-did-not-do-it-ites could tell me in what bedroom Hanratty spent the nights of 22 and 23 August 1961, I would be very grateful. If it was the case that he spent the night in the bathroom, why did he not mention the bed and bath being in the same room?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2504  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:17 PM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Yes he said that.

The landlady, Grace Jones, confirmed in court that there was a bed in the bathroom.

But she said room number 4 was available that week for casual visitors. Joe Sayle (Alexei Sayle’s dad) testified that he stayed in room 4 on the nights of 21, 22 and 23 August.

A newspaper report of her evidence:
part 1
part 2
Hanratty was clear that he could see the rear courtyard from his room. According to Foot Room No 4 was at the front of the house above the front dining room, so even without the presence of Mr Sayle room 4 does not fit the bill.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2505  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:23 PM
Kerry1983 Kerry1983 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 28
Default

Just read them both, thank you for that, very interesting.
I wouldn't have thought that a double bed could fit in the bathroom, it's only a small room and the bath was quite big. There wouldn't have been any floor space at all if so and i don't think the door would open.

Room 4 is at the front of the house, the window directly above the front door. I asked about the trains as if he stayed in this room then he wouldn't be able to hear them. Also they can't be heard from the then bathroom? But i guess trains were a lot noisier in those days so possibly?
The only rooms i can hear the trains from are room 1 which is now my bathroom and room 5, my bedroom.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2506  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:30 PM
Kerry1983 Kerry1983 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Hello Kerry1983 and welcome to the forum.

Hanratty said in evidence that he had a room at the back of the house, and that he did not bother to draw the curtains. He said that when he awoke he could see a small courtyard.

Is it possible to see the rear courtyard from the bathroom on the top floor.

You say that the green bath was not an attic room, but a room on the third floor.

As Foot describes Ingledene;
On the ground floor at the front is the dining room.
On the first floor there were 4 of the 6 letting bedrooms; rooms 1,2,4 and 6.
On the second floor 2 more letting bedrooms; rooms 3 and 5.


Mrs Grace Jones in her evidence is reported to call the bathroom as being in the "attic" which is why we have been calling it an attic bathroom. You say, however, that it is just a room on the third floor. Were there any other rooms on the third floor. Do you know is any building alterations have been made to Ingledene to alter the room configuration.

If any of Hanratty-did-not-do-it-ites could tell me in what bedroom Hanratty spent the nights of 22 and 23 August 1961, I would be very grateful. If it was the case that he spent the night in the bathroom, why did he not mention the bed and bath being in the same room?
Hi Spitfire,

There is no way at all that he could have seen the courtyard from the bathroom, it just has a small skylight window which is on the front of the house.
Yes the bathroom is definitely just another room, not an attic at all. You're correct with the amount of bedrooms on each floor but the numbers are wrong (i think), i'll have to check, they're still on the doors.
There are only 3 rooms on the third floor, when i moved in they were 2 bedrooms and the bathroom with green bath.
No i'm not aware of any building alterations, they're all as they were in 1961 as far as i can tell. All had the original sinks etc when i moved in.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2507  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:32 PM
Kerry1983 Kerry1983 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Hanratty was clear that he could see the rear courtyard from his room. According to Foot Room No 4 was at the front of the house above the front dining room, so even without the presence of Mr Sayle room 4 does not fit the bill.
Room number 4 is directly over the front door, it's only a small room. It's room number 3 that is over the front dining room.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2508  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:45 PM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry1983 View Post
Hi Spitfire,

There is no way at all that he could have seen the courtyard from the bathroom, it just has a small skylight window which is on the front of the house.
Yes the bathroom is definitely just another room, not an attic at all. You're correct with the amount of bedrooms on each floor but the numbers are wrong (i think), i'll have to check, they're still on the doors.
There are only 3 rooms on the third floor, when i moved in they were 2 bedrooms and the bathroom with green bath.
No i'm not aware of any building alterations, they're all as they were in 1961 as far as i can tell. All had the original sinks etc when i moved in.

Hi Kerry, Thanks for that.

Paul Foot doesn't mention there being any bedrooms on the third floor. As stated above he writes that there were a total of six bedrooms in Ingledene, (four available for letting), and that four were on the first floor and two and the second floor. He doesn't mention any on the third floor.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2509  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:49 PM
Kerry1983 Kerry1983 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Hi Kerry, Thanks for that.

Paul Foot doesn't mention there being any bedrooms on the third floor. As stated above he writes that there were a total of six bedrooms in Ingledene, (four available for letting), and that four were on the first floor and two and the second floor. He doesn't mention any on the third floor.
Oh sorry, it's me confusing you with calling the floors different names. I always refer to it as the third floor as it's the third level! It is infact the second floor!
The first floor had 4 bedrooms and the individual toilet and the second floor had 2 bedooms and the bathroom.
There is no third floor, apologies
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2510  
Old 03-12-2015, 03:57 PM
moste moste is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Vancouver Island British Columbia.
Posts: 478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry1983 View Post
Hi there, I don't know if i'm posting in the right place so please correct me if i'm not.
I currently own Ingledene on Kinmel Street in Rhyl and have done for the past 9 years, i came across these forums a couple of weeks ago and just thought i would make myself known and see if i can be of any help at all.

Thanks,
Kerry.
Hi Kerry welcome to the forum,

As well as the green bath, which Hanratty identified, and the hat stand in the hall which obviously would be long gone, Hanratty also mentioned to his defence team and also to his parents, the existence of a tiled back yard, I was wondering if that was still around when you moved in?
For people who believe Hanratty was innocent, all of the above are irrefutable evidence that the man stayed there.
Regardless of weather Hanratty stayed in the attic room which incidentally would not have been permissible by the local laws of the day,(which Mrs Jones knew, but was nevertheless prepared to admit) he did SEE the bathtub, so other than proof that the dates of him staying at Ingledene, were wrong, he had a solid alibi.
Cheers Steve.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.