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  #231  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:21 PM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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There will always be a massive gulf between Trump supporters and non-supporters on what he allegedly delivers because there are different views on what counts as delivered. I.e. if it is about progressing Russia's Foreign Policy or damaging the environment then yes, I agree he delivers. Anyways, different people have different priorities.

About the WaPo, they have journalistic standards to defend and are fact checking as much as possible. Yes, I am happy that they have fact checked 4000+ statements as lies and have have not come across a single one that I know and can show to be incorrect. Why don't you try it yourself?

This leaves us with the fact of lying. It matters because the decorum of the presidency and society in general matters. What we are witnessing here is the moral castration of the GOP and the evangelicals. Once it's down to "I don't care as long as he hates the same people that I hate? BRAVO!!!" Then a serious rethink is needed.
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  #232  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:48 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Good work, Svensson. I think Trump's supporters do truly believe he is championing them against the lying press and the evil Deep State. The fact that these things most likely do not exist (well, except in Russia), doesn't bother them. It's true the economy seems better, and unemployment is down, but will Chinese tariffs on American imports change those facts?
How will we manage when prices climb to offset the extra charges to the manufacturers?

I think Trump has delivered hatred, bigotry, chaos and confusion on a world stage. He is inflicting damage on the environment, human rights, simp!e decency, and to quote Bob Dylan "The Times They Are A'Changin'"-- the sooner the better. Let's hope the pendulum swings back to a more sensible government.
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  #233  
Old 08-05-2018, 02:48 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svensson View Post
There will always be a massive gulf between Trump supporters and non-supporters on what he allegedly delivers because there are different views on what counts as delivered. I.e. if it is about progressing Russia's Foreign Policy or damaging the environment then yes, I agree he delivers. Anyways, different people have different priorities.
"Russia's foreign policy?"

When the EU and USA backed the coup of a democratically elected government in Ukraine because they were too pro-Russia and then stood back while Russia annexed Crimea what exactly was Obama's policy on Russia?
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  #234  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:56 AM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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"When the EU and USA backed the coup of a democratically elected government in Ukraine"

Erm. Sure.

Again, this highlights the problem. Trump is lying to justify his narrative. We know why he does it which makes it so important that someone like the WaPo have taken on this impossible task.

Still, my point was the fact that he is lying like no one else before ( at least not is a democratic administration) as this is pretty much undisputed and I have stated why I find this a problem, no matter what the party affiliation actually is. If this is no issue for you, then you at least need to accept that the GOPs inaction on Trump's constant lying will disqualify them from making any moral judgment on other politicians on international matters for a generation. That IS a problem IMO.

Last edited by Svensson : 08-05-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  #235  
Old 08-27-2018, 10:20 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Trump announces 'incredible' trade deal with Mexico

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45323634



On cars, the two sides also settled on rules that will require 40%-45% of each vehicle to be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour.

That provision is aimed at discouraging firms from locating plants in lower-wage Mexico.


Trump is the worst racist ever!! He is really bad at it, he has just got a load of good, honest Mexican factory workers a rather impressive pay-rise.


Are you yanks sick of winning yet? Because I think you and your president is great.
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  #236  
Old 08-27-2018, 11:46 AM
Ginger Ginger is online now
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Once again, I'm 57 years old. This man is easily the best POTUS of my lifetime. America's future looks brighter than it has since 1973, if not longer.
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  #237  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:06 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Once again, I'm 57 years old. This man is easily the best POTUS of my lifetime.
That seems a tad hyperbolic, if you don't mind my saying. What has Trump achieved compared to Reagan, say?
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  #238  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:47 PM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Trump announces 'incredible' trade deal with Mexico

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45323634



On cars, the two sides also settled on rules that will require 40%-45% of each vehicle to be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour.

That provision is aimed at discouraging firms from locating plants in lower-wage Mexico.


Trump is the worst racist ever!! He is really bad at it, he has just got a load of good, honest Mexican factory workers a rather impressive pay-rise.


Are you yanks sick of winning yet? Because I think you and your president is great.
Lol, do you have any idea how much a engine assembler earns? Hint, its a lot more than 15 bucks. And yes, also in Mexico. So how exactly that translates to "pay rises" for Mexican workers is not specified at all.

Seems to me that Trump is trying for another victory lap over another red herring. The North Korea fiasco is still fresh, but Trumpsters already seem to have forgiven him for that.

Nevermind, he will be in shackles by Christmas.
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  #239  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:15 PM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svensson View Post

Seems to me that Trump is trying for another victory lap over another red herring. The North Korea fiasco is still fresh, but Trumpsters already seem to have forgiven him for that.

Nevermind, he will be in shackles by Christmas.
Even Fake News CNN are not criticising it....all they are doing is memorials of Songbird McCain.
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  #240  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:42 AM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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Hm, I don't follow that logic. If CNN are criticising Trump, then they are fake news. If they don't criticise Trump, then he is vindicated.... (besides, there is tons of stuff on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS that criticise Trump for his handling of the North Korea situation).

Anyways, I go back to my statement at the top of this page:

"There will always be a massive gulf between Trump supporters and non-supporters on what he allegedly delivers because there are different views on what counts as 'delivered'."

Given that Trump is such a prolific proven liar, I prefer to check the facts myself. Trump supporters seem to think that Trump's word is enough on any given subject. Broadly, his "statements" fall into three categories. Blatant lies, Out and out lunatics and Complete Contradictions to earlier statements (specifically, Obama-bad, me-good, even for identical actions/statements). Having seem his announcement while trying to get the Mexican president on the phone, I could probably list a handful of statements in each of these three categories.

The problem is obvious: Any "fact-based discussion" on Trump would probably break the internet, so he could then resign and declare that he has fixed the internet as well.
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