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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Alice Mackenzie

View Poll Results: McKenzie - Ripper victim or not?
YES 23 41.82%
NO 18 32.73%
UNDECIDED 14 25.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:09 PM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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This coming Thursday is the 125th anniversary of the MacKenzie murder. May you rest in peace Alice.
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  #22  
Old 07-15-2014, 02:08 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I'm undecided; but before I read Jon Simons' research, it would have been a simple "no". Not that Jon has totally convinced me, but he has prompted me to re-evaluate McKenzie's case in a new light.
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  #23  
Old 07-15-2014, 04:15 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Me too Gareth...it's the most succinct and well written thing I ever read on the Clay Pipe murder

All the best

Dave
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  #24  
Old 07-15-2014, 04:27 PM
Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac is offline
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Yes, for the same reasons as the other posters.

Has there ever been a serial killer who has acted upon all of his fantasies upon all victims? There are plenty of constraints on his actions outside of his control.

Yes for me, and Stride and Coles, but probably not Tabram.
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  #25  
Old 07-16-2014, 12:24 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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I am on the fence about good old Clay Pipe Alice [what a cool name] but I am leaning towards yes. Maybe 52:48.
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  #26  
Old 07-16-2014, 05:00 PM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
I am on the fence about good old Clay Pipe Alice [what a cool name] but I am leaning towards yes. Maybe 52:48.
Yes, the catchiest sobriquet in the case excepting Jack the Ripper of course. One-armed Liz gets an honorable mention
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Last edited by sdreid : 07-16-2014 at 05:03 PM.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2014, 05:27 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdreid View Post
Yes, the catchiest sobriquet in the case excepting Jack the Ripper of course. One-armed Liz gets an honorable mention
Sorry Stan

I've never come across the soubriquet One-Armed Liz before. But not a bad one, better than Ginger or Long Liz or even Gut.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:03 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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I'm inclined to rule Mackenzie in as a Ripper victim. It's more plausible to me that her murder was committed by the Ripper having lost his 'edge' (in possibly more ways than one), rather than some copycat killer. That would certainly explain the regression of the killing. I wonder what physical condition Jacob Levy was in at this time?
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  #29  
Old 10-07-2014, 04:11 PM
Defective Detective Defective Detective is offline
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I think McKenzie is more likely than any of the other non-canonicals to be a Ripper victim save Martha Tabram, who I believe was. I also think she's more likely to have been a victim of the Ripper than Elizabeth Stride.

The de-escalation inherent in the McKenzie murder is explicable by the extreme savagery in the Kelly case. That was a total transformation of a human body into some other subjective form for the Ripper: he effectively turned her into whatever it was he wanted, as he had a practically unlimited amount of time to work upon her.

Nothing else would have been nearly as satisfactory for him, surely not a street ripping after the style of the first few victims. I see the Ripper trying to light his old fire in it, but getting unenthused by it and more or less saying "the Hell with this".

(At the same time, I don't think she actually was a Ripper victim, more because I'm too cowardly to make any definite claims about the case than because of any solid theory I have.)

Last edited by Defective Detective : 10-07-2014 at 04:13 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2014, 07:31 PM
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SirJohnFalstaff SirJohnFalstaff is offline
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I choose to think she is not.
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