Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Abby Normal 9 minutes ago.
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - by Michael W Richards 20 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Trevor Marriott 23 minutes ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim? - by Michael W Richards 26 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Sam Flynn 27 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Sam Flynn 34 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (26 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim? - (25 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - (23 posts)
Non-Fiction: the victims werent prostitutes - (13 posts)
Witnesses: Mizen's inquest statement reconstructed - (3 posts)
General Discussion: Do you think it will be solved? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

View Poll Results: Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim?
Yes 57 82.61%
No 8 11.59%
Undecided 4 5.80%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #471  
Old Today, 04:22 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
See what I mean? Differences are trivialised, so as to justify ignoring such details. Half a foot is hardly "a bit" taller, and 20 years is hardly "a bit" younger. The main thing to note about height is when the victims become taller than the murderer - that is unusual in and of itself, but especially when all previous victims have been uniform.

As for Ted Bundy, would you suspect him if he were at large and a woman in her 50s was found slain? He had a thing for young women. It's not random that the oldest of his numerous victims was 26 years old. And Bundy was also, as far as I'm aware, taller than all of his victims.
I watched a docu on Bundy recently and he seemed to pick up his victims were you would expect to find younger women, campuses, on the beach, hitchhikers etc . Jack prowled the street at night were it would be reasonable to expect the victims would be of say Polly's class rather than young prettier women who would most likely work in brothels.
As for Mary that was probably due to the fact that he moved indoors [extra patrols etc] and she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If Mrs Cox lived in the ground floor flat I am sure that Jack would just as easily murdered her.

Last edited by Darryl Kenyon : Today at 04:26 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old Today, 04:25 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Jack prowled the street at night were it would be reasonable to expect the victims would be of say Polly's class rather than young prettier women who would most likely work in brothels.
Unfortunately for Mary Kelly, she was a younger woman who no longer worked in a brothel, but was compelled to walk the same streets as Polly Nichols... whether the same killer was responsible for their deaths or not.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old Today, 05:08 AM
Karl Karl is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 217
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
But Bundy killed two, perhaps three, little girls, which is not to trivialise anything, merely to point out that the victim's age is not always a straightforward diagnostic criterion. Besides, any significance we read into the victims' ages is somewhat complicated by the observation that Nichols looked younger than her years, and the same has been argued for Eddowes and Stride.
The youngest of his possible victims was 8, but he was himself 15 at the time. In any case, they still have youth in common. Youth symbolises innocence, and by association, vulnerability. Mature women simply didn't do it for him. He wanted girls, in the age range of 15-25. Or someone who'd look 15-19. The outliers could easily have the same appearance as his preferred targets.

With the Ripper murders, you have the ages at 43, 47, 45, 43... and 25. And granted, Nichols was said to look about ten years younger than she was, but even so she'd be a mature adult at the most generous. If Kelly look about ten years older then that would at least be something, but her description as beautiful suggests otherwise. And beauty, with respects to the first four, could hardly be said to be a quality they shared with Kelly.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old Today, 05:20 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
The youngest of his possible victims was 8, but he was himself 15 at the time. In any case, they still have youth in common. Youth symbolises innocence, and by association, vulnerability. Mature women simply didn't do it for him. He wanted girls, in the age range of 15-25. Or someone who'd look 15-19. The outliers could easily have the same appearance as his preferred targets.

With the Ripper murders, you have the ages at 43, 47, 45, 43... and 25. And granted, Nichols was said to look about ten years younger than she was, but even so she'd be a mature adult at the most generous. If Kelly look about ten years older then that would at least be something, but her description as beautiful suggests otherwise. And beauty, with respects to the first four, could hardly be said to be a quality they shared with Kelly.
Hi Karl
You said previously in this thread that you wouldn't be surprised that they were all killed by different killers.

Do you still believe that?

and if so why?
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old Today, 06:02 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl View Post
And beauty, with respects to the first four, could hardly be said to be a quality they shared with Kelly.
Availability might well trump aesthetics from the point of view of an opportunistic killer.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old Today, 07:31 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Availability might well trump aesthetics from the point of view of an opportunistic killer.

That's surely relevant Sam, and the fact that Mary was in bed undressed when she is first attacked can only be explained if she had habitually brought strangers into her room. That would enable "opportunity". Given the fact that Blotchy is the ONLY such person fitting that criteria, and that she only had the room to herself for 2 nights prior to her murder, it would seem the premise that Mary brought "clients" in to her room is nothing more than speculation.

So how does an "opportunity" killer of women actively working the streets find himself in a dead end courtyard?

Polly and Annie were working at the time, and that should be factored when looking at future murders and how the victims were accessed.
__________________
Michael Richards

Last edited by Michael W Richards : Today at 07:34 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.