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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #41  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:55 AM
John Savage John Savage is offline
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Hi Joshua,

"The Juror: We are summoned for the Shoreditch district. This affair happened in Spitalfields.

The Coroner: It happened within my district.

Another Juryman: This is not my district. I come from Whitechapel, and Mr. Baxter is my coroner."


It must be remembered that Coroner MacDonald only became coroner for the new division of North East Middlesex in July 1888 when Wynne Baxter's East Middlesex division was split into two.

Also in the same year new parish boundaries had been introduced under the Local Government Act of 1887, these boundaries were rather confusing.

No wonder the juryman was confused.

Rgds
John
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:15 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Savage
No wonder the juryman was confused.
Thanks John! I feel a bit better about not being able to get my head around it now.
I'm pretty sure even with the boundary changes that Whitechapel was still under Baxter's jurisdiction, so it seems the jurors were selected from both East and NE Middlesex divisions...or am I still confused?
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  #43  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:55 AM
John Savage John Savage is offline
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Hi Joshua,

Don't worry about being confused as the boundaries between Whitechapel
and Shoreditch were confusing after the effects of the Local Government Act of 1887, which in effect came into force in 1888.

At one time I did have a map of the boundaries and it seems that some people could be affected by which side of the street they lived, so one side of the street might have been in Whitechapel and the other not.

If you need further information I can only suggest you look at Ripperologist #65 - The Green of The Peak, by Robert Linford, David OFlaherty and some other bloke. (page 33 onward).

Rgds
John
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  #44  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:32 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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“Snowden’s Police Officer’s Guide,” 1885—

“It is not the duty of the police to remove a dead body from any house where it may be lying. Persons applying to the police with such an object should be referred to the parochial authorities.”

All the police had to do was determine in whose jurisdiction the body lay and contact the relevant authority.

In this instance the parochial authority was Shoreditch, which was within the North East Middlesex coroner's district.

Removing the body thus became the responsibility of Thomas Hammond, Coroner Roderick Macdonald’s officer since the summer of 1888.

Star, 10th November 1888—

“In the Dorset Street case, there was no duty cast upon the police to remove the body from the house where it was found, and the coroner's officer for the district being communicated with, he was obliged to take it where he could. If he had taken it to Old Montague Street, it would have gone from his control, so he took it to Shoreditch, which is within his district.”

On the following day, Saturday 10th November, coronial life went on as usual. Dr. Macdonald held an 'inquiry' at the Pitt's Head public house into the death of a four year old boy. Wynne Baxter held an inquest at Poplar Town Hall into the death of an eleven month old boy, and in the evening an inquest at Shadwell into the mysterious death by drowning of Frances Annie Hancock.

Neither coroner was fighting over the jurisdiction of the Millers Court murder victim.

South Wales Echo, 12th November 1888—

"The coroner [Macdonald] complained of the unfounded statements in the press as to alleged communications between himself and Mr. Wynne Baxter with regard to jurisdiction."

Meanwhile, as the Kelly inquest proceeded, "Jack the Ripper" was appearing before the magistrate at Marlborough Street Police Court.

Regards,

Simon
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:16 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Savage View Post
Hi Joshua,

Don't worry about being confused as the boundaries between Whitechapel
and Shoreditch were confusing after the effects of the Local Government Act of 1887, which in effect came into force in 1888.

At one time I did have a map of the boundaries and it seems that some people could be affected by which side of the street they lived, so one side of the street might have been in Whitechapel and the other not.

If you need further information I can only suggest you look at Ripperologist #65 - The Green of The Peak, by Robert Linford, David OFlaherty and some other bloke. (page 33 onward).

Rgds
John
Thanks again John. I found an 1877 map showing the boundaries, but this isn't much good if they changed a decade later. I will check out the article you suggest, cheers. In the meantime, I've just come across this tantalisingly curtailed snippet from the Star 10th Nov;

"WHO WILL HOLD THE INQUEST?
The removal of Kelly's body to the Shoreditch mortuary is likely to lead to some complications through the intersection of the local boundaries and the jurisdiction of the two coroners for the newly-formed divisions of Eastern Middlesex. Spitalfields, although within the Whitechapel district for all local purposes, is within (cont'd next page)"

Whew, the second half is there too;
"...the North Eastern Division of Middlesex, and is therefore under the jurisdiction of Dr. Macdonald. All the other portions of Whitechapel remain under the jurisdiction of Mr. Baxter, so far as coroner's inquests are concerned."

So that seems to confirm exactly what you were saying. Good stuff.

Last edited by Joshua Rogan : 06-21-2018 at 01:31 PM.
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2018, 12:19 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Morning Advertiser (London)
3 September 1888

THE LISTS OF JURYMEN
Yesterday the lists of the names of those persons liable to serve as special and common jurymen in England and Wales during the year were exhibited on the doors of every church, chapel, and other public places of worship over England and Wales, where they can be inspected by every one, and where they will remain during the next two Sundays. Every person whose name appears in these lists will be liable to serve as a juryman except those who are over 60 years of age, and those among others who are exempt by reason of being peers, Members of Parliament, judges, clergymen, Roman Catholic priests, members of the bar, solicitors, officers of the Law Courts, coroners, doctors, the household servants of Her Majesty, the officers of the Post Office, Customs and Inland Revenue, Magistrates, and their staffs, and others. During the last week in this month the justices of the peace in every division in England and Wales will hold a special petty session for the purpose of correcting the lists, and of allowing any objection to serve which may be substantiated.
Magistrates are no longer exempt. The anomaly is that they can serve as jurors to the maximum age of 75 but have to leave the (active) bench at 70.
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Regards, Bridewell.
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