Faecal matter on apron piece

[lynn cates]

Copcats R Us

Hello Damaso.

"I had never heard of the Beadmoor murder before. I have to admit that the copycat theory is now a lot more plausible to me."

Of course, "copycats" are ALWAYS difficult to determine. If I recall properly, the LaBianca murders were thought a copycat of the Tate murders. But that was a mistake.

On the other hand, many ripper students think that McKenzie and Coles were copycats.

"However, it is one thing to mutilate the face and sling the intestines over the shoulder just because you read about it in the paper. It is another thing entirely to successfully copy the ability to strike quietly and work quickly."

Quite. And it was this that Wynne Baxter used to guide his thinking in Liz's case. But, too, the killer/s of McKenzie and Coles did precisely this.

And these issues are what keep ripper students up at night.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Tom. Thanks for that. I did not realise it was in line with that wound. I must check that out.

Thanks again.

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

The ear is actually really easy to cut through. I'm not saying I accidentally cut through my sister's ear once when I was about 10 and trying to retrieve a pair of earrings she was wearing or anything... but if I had I would say that it was akin to cutting through a stick of butter. (I still feel really bad about that)

We know he used a long knife on the face. The triangular flaps on the cheeks were made when cutting the nose. It's possible that he cut the ear during the facial mutilations, and then just decided to lop it off. Or he could have cut it purposefully, but there is nothing particularly disfiguring about cutting the ear, so I can't really put it in the same category as the facial mutilations. Or it could have just been an accident he took advantage of. It all has to do with the positioning of the head. If he was at that side of her head, or her head was tilted so that the ear was more exposed, that could indicate an accident. If her head was tilted the other way or he was on the other side, then it would have to be purposeful. I will say that one of more common ways an ear is cut is when cutting hair. A person holds up a lock of hair, slices through and the tip of the blade cuts the ear. I don't think he took a lock of her hair, and if he did that would be more significant than almost any other aspect of the crime. But the idea should be tossed out there for the sake of fairness.

[Damaso Marte]

Hello Damaso.

"I had never heard of the Beadmoor murder before. I have to admit that the copycat theory is now a lot more plausible to me."

Of course, "copycats" are ALWAYS difficult to determine. If I recall properly, the LaBianca murders were thought a copycat of the Tate murders. But that was a mistake.

On the other hand, many ripper students think that McKenzie and Coles were copycats.

"However, it is one thing to mutilate the face and sling the intestines over the shoulder just because you read about it in the paper. It is another thing entirely to successfully copy the ability to strike quietly and work quickly."

Quite. And it was this that Wynne Baxter used to guide his thinking in Liz's case. But, too, the killer/s of McKenzie and Coles did precisely this.

And these issues are what keep ripper students up at night.

Cheers.
LC

At times I've been tempted to think of McKenzie and Coles as the work of a washed-up, past his prime serial killer who tries but can no longer get excited about mutilation, and goes home cursing how much skill he has lost.

[lynn cates]

monkeying around

Hello Errata. Thanks. I think of the facial mutilations along the lines of the 3 monkeys--see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. (And keep your nose out of it.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Trow away hypothesis.

Hello Damaso. Hmm, you should meet Professor Trow.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Past His Prime

At times I've been tempted to think of McKenzie and Coles as the work of a washed-up, past his prime serial killer who tries but can no longer get excited about mutilation,.

Hi Damaso,
I've been similarly tempted in respect of Alice McKenzie. I think Coles was by another hand though.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Errata. Thanks. I think of the facial mutilations along the lines of the 3 monkeys--see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. (And keep your nose out of it.)

Cheers.
LC

I believe we have a viable interpretation there Lynn.....the face was cut as a warning.

The term copycat isnt applicable to this murder because as we know the wounds to Kate were not like the wounds to previous victims aside from the facial wounds, the organs absconded with are another variance.

As is the location.

Best regards Lynn,

Mike R

[lynn cates]

take warning

Hello Mike. Thanks. 2 questions arise.

1. Warning to whom?

2. Warning concerning what?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Arguable

Hello Errata. Thanks. I think of the facial mutilations along the lines of the 3 monkeys--see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. (And keep your nose out of it.)

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,
Could they not simply be the irrational actions of a psychopathic serial killer? Or a killer who's taunting the police by flaunting the fact that he's got so much time available?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Mike. Thanks. 2 questions arise.

1. Warning to whom?

2. Warning concerning what?

Cheers.
LC

In my opinion we have a warning from either a group or an individual whom Kate was aware of. I believe the story that states she was going to go to the Police to turn in the killer....so why not tell the cops that arrest her you ask?

Maybe she was negotiating, or thought she was, for a payout from the culprit or group to keep quiet. Maybe her drinking that afternoon ended with..... "Meet my man at around 1 at the carriageway to Mitre Square, he'll take you to the person who will pay you. He will be wearing a red scarf."

She comes late...waits, thinking she has missed him, when suddenly he comes up from behind, startles her, and she turns, places her hand on his chest...." You startled me....I thought Id missed you".

"Come with me missus, our contact is waiting in the square."

All the best Lynn,

Mike R

[DrHopper]

I'm an archaeologist - actually a pottery specialist. When we are faced with a site with thousands of sherds of pot, we have to try and sort them into manageable categories that we are able to understand, and from which we can draw meaningful conclusions. To do this we have to sort them into groups - usually by surface treatment. Now, within each groups there are variations- these are minute, but they are nonetheless differences. These are the result of different temperatures when firing, differences in preservation, function when still in use, differences in paint make-up, or even the mood of the potter. However, because they all correspond with a class of pottery, and have various markers that clearly separate them from other types, they are grouped. And we have a motto amongst pottery nerds - "group, don't split", otherwise, we would end up with with millions of separate examples with infinitely small differences .

Now, this is a slightly long-winded way of rebuking Michael W Richards' comment above. Kate's wounds are exactly like all the others - bodily mutilation, albeit in a extreme example. Location matters not - Jack is using his 'pottery' wherever he can, outside or inside. Relatively minor' points such as the shape of the cuts, or their exact placement, are not especially important in identifying ripper victims, it is enough to know that he is murdering prostitutes in a particularly gruesome manner (i.e. he is not simply stabbing them). If we carry on splitting into different groups, then we end up with a situation where we have no JTR as such, just a dozen killers all killing in the same way, but because they kill on different days of the month, they have to be different people (pace Lynn).
Just my two penn'orth.

[lynn cates]

clever

Hello Colin. Thanks. If so, that would mean he killed Polly and Annie. But would such a clever chap:

1. Talk loudly against the shutters at Hanbury?

2. Take time to steal worthless rings?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

OK

Hello Mike. Thanks. I could live with all that.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

same/different

Hello Dr.

"Kate's wounds are exactly like all the others."

Indeed? You might have a go at the post mortem in each case. Quite a few differences. But, what is MOST striking, is the similarity between Polly and Annie.

Cheers.
LC