Why those particular victims?

[Outlaw]

I am a new poster on these Forums, but I have a life-long interest in JTR since being told stories about Jack as a small child by my Grandmother who lived through the time in question.

She always believed that there were only ever five victims for a reason, there would only ever be five.

The number was significant and a warning of some kind, a direct response to something else that happened five times.

Nothing to do with satanism, black magic or sacred numbers in case you were wondering

Most people seem determined to identify the person[s] responsible for the murders, but fewer seem to have questioned why they occurred at all - and for what purpose.

This is not a 'Conspiratorial' view at all, but that question does not seem to be as important as nailing the perpetrator, which of course is important; but in my opinion, if the real reasons why the murders occurred can be established, it would answer a lot of questions - for me anyway.

I do not know if I am making myself clear here, but from everything I have read over the last thirty-odd years, and discussed with others, the 'Why' question has never been fully explored.

I hope that makes sense.

[GUT]

G'day Outlaw and welcome

You ask

Most people seem determined to identify the person[s] responsible for the murders, but fewer seem to have questioned why they occurred at all - and for what purpose.

You're kidding ain't you there are threads all over casebook about motive.

[Harry D]

"...for the women of of [sic] Moab and Midian shall die and their blood shall mingle with the dust. I never harm any others or the Divine power that protects and helps me in my grand work would quit for ever."

Jack was Jewish, the murders were ritualistic in nature, he despised whores for giving him a venereal disease and wreaked bloody vengeance upon them.

[Pontius2000]

The question which victims to include and exclude has been debated and mulled over just about as much as the "whodunnit" aspect. It's been examined in most of the serious books on the subject and was even itself the subject of a recent book....I believe Tom Westcott's?

As far as "why those 5"? Well, if you're working on the premise that an unknown serial killer was operating in the east end of London over a few months, you would definitely want to start with a list of canonical victims.

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, and Kelly all fit the same MO....
1. All prostitutes
2. Throats cut
3. Mutilation after death
4. Mutilation targeting sexual organs

In fact, within the 4, there is a progression/escalation in violence/mutilation of victim.

Stride is included of course because she fits the first 2 criteria in the MO...
1. She was a prostitute
2. Her throat was cut

She otherwise would possibly not be included if not for the fact that she was killed on the same night as one of the other 4, and the proximity in place and time to that murder. It bears the hallmark of a crime interrupted.

As for what is now known about serial killers, it cannot be said conclusively that Nichols was the first JtR victim. Most serial killers' first murders a "sloppier", more risk, less planning, etc because they are just learning to kill and their MO has not yet evolved. For that reason, Martha Tabram is considered by many as possibly being JtR's first murder, as is Emma Smith.

Tabram, like the canonical victims, was the victim of a frenzied style attack and her pelvis (sexual region) was stabbed. She was a prostitute. Her throat was not slashed. So her murder does bear some hallmarks of what would be expected in a killer's "first kill" who went on to evolve into JtR's MO.

At the same time, Nichols was just as likely to be that "first kill". Her mutilations were not as extensive. Unlike Chapman, Eddowes, and Kelly, no organs were removed from Nichols. She was killed in a road rather than the decidedly more "private" areas that the other 4 canonical victims died.

As for 5, and any special meaning for 5 victims, no I don't buy that at all. For one, there's no real evidence that JtR ever fully intended to kill 2 on the night of the double murder. In all likelihood, he was imterrupted during the Stride murder and being unsatisfied, went and found another victim.

With what is known about serial killers, there's no reason to think JtR would've stopped killing, or that he even could have willed himself to stop killing, after Kelly. The possible explanations for why Kelly appears to be the final victim...

-JtR died soon after the Kelly murder
-JtR moved away soon after the Kelly murder
- he was incarcerated soon after Kelly
-the heat on him was so intense that he couldn't continue without being caught
-he continued killing, but changed his MO out of necessity to avoid being caught

Since he never was caught, the possibilities are virtually endless. But to think there was any special meaning for him in "5 and only 5, no more no less", no I doubt that very much. He probably would've loved to kill hundreds or thousands if the circumstances had allowed.

[Outlaw]

My Theory

Although I fully expect my own theory, and possible suspect to be torn apart by the good folk on here, I have published it on my website for anybody to freely read and scrutinise.

It will be published in three (or possibly more) parts, the first examining some of the more 'popular' suspects, the second looking at possible reasons and the events which led up to why the murders occurred, and finally why the canonical victims were selected and who I believe to be the perpetrator...

http://outlawjimmy.com/2014/09/10/a-ripping-yarn-part-one/

[lynn cates]

random

Hello Outlaw. Welcome to the boards. Good question.

I think most ripper students will argue that the killings were random--based on opportunity.

What do you think?

Cheers.
LC

[Outlaw]

Hello Outlaw. Welcome to the boards. Good question.

I think most ripper students will argue that the killings were random--based on opportunity.

What do you think?

Cheers.
LC

Although it's not going to be a popular opinion on here, I do agree that the victims were 'selected' at random (apart from Kelly) and opportunity did of course play a part, but the murders were also used to to create an 'atmosphere of utter terror' in the East End and beyond.

Which worked exceptionally well.

Mary Kelly, however, was different, my family originally came from Bedwellty, South Wales where Mary Kelly was raised, before she was incarcerated in Cardiff Royal Infirmary for a short time and her arrival in London around 1884.

My family were Coal Miners, Welsh Baptist Ministers, Undertakers and Butchers, going back four generations in that area of South Wales

Up until the time my parents passed away, there were people they knew, who's relatives clearly remembered the Kelly family and their 'famous' connection to the Whitechapel murders.

I still remember as a child in the 1960's, being told a story by my Grandmother about Mary Kelly and how she was 'Chosen' - and why she was mutilated in such a grotesque manner....

"To serve as a 'warning'.. Were the words I distinctly remember.

It may of course be total nonsense, but is no less nonsensical than some of the other stories and 'theories' that have been presented and argued about ever since.

Note: I believe the Ripper murders were NOT carried out by a sexual maniac nor a member of the Royal Family.

[SJ76]

I don't believe that those confirmed 5 victims were his only killings. He may have been stopped after Mary Kelly, but his method seems practiced, hes very confident and quick. I think he had murdered before he began the confirmed jtr murders

[Outlaw]

"...for the women of of [sic] Moab and Midian shall die and their blood shall mingle with the dust. I never harm any others or the Divine power that protects and helps me in my grand work would quit for ever."

Jack was Jewish, the murders were ritualistic in nature, he despised whores for giving him a venereal disease and wreaked bloody vengeance upon them.

How do you know he was Jewish and had a venereal disease.?

I am curious.

[Severina]

in my opinion, if the real reasons why the murders occurred can be established, it would answer a lot of questions - for me anyway.

Hello, I'm a new poster too. I imagine this forum has been flooded with new posters these past few days

imo, the "why" of it doesn't in fact answer many questions. Why does any serial killer do what they do? The short answer, to boil it down- because they like it, and they get off on it in some way or another.

Why those particular victims? Prostitutes make easy targets for serial killers to this very day, because they routinely accompany strangers to secluded spots. Why those particular prostitutes? Wrong place at the wrong time.

Now in 2014 we obviously know much more about serial killers than anyone did in the 1880's. Today, I think most people can accept the idea of a serial killer who kills simply because it's what he likes to do. In the past, the concept of a psychopathic serial killer didn't exist. So we get all these "explanations" that today I think we can safely discard- that Jack was on a mission to punish immoral women, or that Jack was a Satanist, or that Jack was communicating some sort of message. These are all attempts at trying to make sense of actions that people at the time didn't understand.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Outlaw,

You would be asking the same question no matter which five women had been murdered.

Regards,

Simon

[Penhalion]

I'm curious about the Welsh family who claimed MJK as their own......well after the fact. If she was one of theirs, why did none of them appear at the inquest? Why did no one attend her funeral or claim her body? The story was extensively covered so I'm pretty sure most of Wales knew about it soon after it happened. I'm a bit skeptical.

And isn't butchering 5 women a bit draconian for a 'warning'? Who were they trying to warn? About what? If they had a clandestine motive, surely causing one of the biggest news stories of the latter half of the 19th century is not the way to remain clandestine.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I think victimology put these women at the top of the high risk category.

Why them? It was easier.

[Harry D]

How do you know he was Jewish and had a venereal disease.?

I am curious.

All the clues are there, you just need to know where to look.

[GUT]

All the clues are there, you just need to know where to look.

And that's under a Table Runner.