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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #71  
Old 05-11-2012, 01:18 AM
Livia Livia is offline
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I've been following this thread with great interest
and you've both done a fantastic job and quite
quickly too! Thanks!

Debs, does a separate list exist for deserters, those
who have been court martialed, or those who have
been dishonorably discharged?
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  #72  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:11 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
I've been following this thread with great interest
and you've both done a fantastic job and quite
quickly too! Thanks!

Debs, does a separate list exist for deserters, those
who have been court martialed, or those who have
been dishonorably discharged?
That's a good point. There might also be those who left before qualifying for a pension or, given the nature of the job, were killed whilst serving. i suspect that no such list will be preserved, but who knows?

Regards, Bridewell.
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  #73  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:50 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Hi Livia and Bridewell.
Many soldiers pension records contain the details of their court Martials, desertion, imprisonment for bad conduct etc. Many were caught or confessed and re-enlisted and it all went on their pension records as they obviously forfeited money built up towards a pension.
There are also files which contain only 1 page , as opposed to the average 8-10 (some have 15+) pages of records. These are the men who usually bought their way out or deserted permanently and were never re-enlisted.
Death in service is a different matter, but FMP does have a database of soldiers who died in service if anyone wants to check that. I've only ever had a brief look at it to look for Henry Kelly.
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  #74  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Hi Debs,

I've been through the 1881 Llantarnam census from start to finish (140 odd pages) & the closest I can find to Dalton is the Doulton family, headed by Nicholas, which I referred to earlier. I'll check Cwmbran too, but if that produces a negative result, I don't know where else to look.

Regards, Bridewell.
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  #75  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:50 AM
DrHopper DrHopper is offline
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Amazing work guys. It is precisely this sort of thing that will get us closer to the truth... whatever that is! Data analysis and hard work!
So, if I understand correctly, we have 2 possible hits out of this pile of Welshmen! Not a bad return!
Neither of the 'hits' are particularly great, but both are tantalising enough to warrant further investigation.
1) Thomas Dalton - he has a sister, Mary Ann who was born in 1855, and there is an Irish connection.
2) Johnno Jones, who has a twin sister Jane, and whose mother was called Mary.

Very interesting.
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  #76  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
Hi Debs,

I've been through the 1881 Llantarnam census from start to finish (140 odd pages) & the closest I can find to Dalton is the Doulton family, headed by Nicholas, which I referred to earlier. I'll check Cwmbran too, but if that produces a negative result, I don't know where else to look.

Regards, Bridewell.
I haven't been able to find him either, Bridewell.
Perhaps they had a family visit to Ireland in April 1881 or the records for their entry were damaged, unreadable or lost?
I believe you found Mr Dalton Snr. (can you tell I've forgotten his name at the moment) in 1891 so they didn't disappear forever.

Dr Hopper, thanks for the comments.
I'm still not too sure about Jho. Jones and that 1871 entry at the St George's barracks that Bridewell found. There are questions about the Scots Fusiliers versus Scots Guards that still probably need answering.
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  #77  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
I believe you found Mr Dalton Snr. (can you tell I've forgotten his name at the moment) in 1891 so they didn't disappear forever.
Hi Debs,

His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.

Regards, Bridewell.
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  #78  
Old 05-11-2012, 08:03 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
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Hi Debs,

His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.

Regards, Bridewell.
Thanks,B.
I think Nicholas was in the asylum in 1911 too. Probably why his name wasn't given as next of kin.
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  #79  
Old 05-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.
It's probably no more than coincidence, but there was a Mary Jane CLEMENT born in 1861 in Llanelly, Carmarthenshire.

Regards, Bridewell.
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  #80  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Default Ta muchly

I think we owe Debs and Colin a debt of gratitude for the amount of slog and hard work they've put in here...I didn't want this thread to simply fade away without saying so

Thanks

Dave
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