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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Scene of the Crimes

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  #1  
Old 04-13-2016, 09:06 AM
Geddy2112 Geddy2112 is offline
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Default Miller's Court - The Fire

I've always had 'issues' with how well Jackie Boy (or girl) was able to perform his deeds in such darkened conditions with such speed. Of course we are led to believe he really went to town in Miller's Court and I presume the 'illumination' from the fire helped.

My question is how bright would the fire have been? Would it still have been enough (with a candle perhaps) to see well enough? (The photos tell us it was.)

Just I struggle getting up in the night to go to the loo without kicking the cat etc... how did JtR manage in such gloomy conditions?
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:21 AM
Errata Errata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy2112 View Post
I've always had 'issues' with how well Jackie Boy (or girl) was able to perform his deeds in such darkened conditions with such speed. Of course we are led to believe he really went to town in Miller's Court and I presume the 'illumination' from the fire helped.

My question is how bright would the fire have been? Would it still have been enough (with a candle perhaps) to see well enough? (The photos tell us it was.)

Just I struggle getting up in the night to go to the loo without kicking the cat etc... how did JtR manage in such gloomy conditions?
The fire was probably bright enough, but what just occurred to me is that he would be unlikely to position himself so that he was between the fire and the body. He would block most of the available light. Which means he was likely up near her head and shoulders, not at her side or between her legs.
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:34 AM
John G John G is offline
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I would ask why he needed a fire at all. Eddowes, for example, was killed and mutilated in what might have been the darkest part of Mitre Square, and yet, according to the Victorian doctors, significantly more skill was demonstrated than in the case of Kelly, who was virtually butchered.
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:40 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Agreed, the fire could definitely cast enough light, but not necessarily in the right direction. The highest flames would be roughly the same height as the bed, so I suspect he would have needed the candle as well, to fill in areas of shadow.

Either that, or he ate a lot of carrots.

Also, depending on the fuel being burned, he may well have had to keep breaking off from his 'work' to throw another item on the fire. Newspaper burns brightly enough, but not for very long, so it would take an awful lot of fish and chip wrappers, unless he was a very fast worker.
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:45 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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John, you forgot the rest of Doctor Sequeira's observation;

"Where the murder was committed was probably the darkest part of the square, but there was sufficient light to enable the miscreant to perpetrate the deed."
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:53 AM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
John, you forgot the rest of Doctor Sequeira's observation;

"Where the murder was committed was probably the darkest part of the square, but there was sufficient light to enable the miscreant to perpetrate the deed."
Hi Joshua,

Yes, Dr Sequeira was, of course stating the obvious, as the deed, was indeed, perpetrated in the Square-unless it's to be argued that the murder took place elsewhere and the body dumped.

However, the point is Kelly was probably killed later in the morning than Eddowes-possibly much later-when it was presumably significantly, or even substantially, lighter. So, considering much less skill appears to have been exhibited at the Kelly murder scene, why would the perpetrator, assuming he was JtR, have required the assistance of artificial light?
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:53 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
John, you forgot the rest of Doctor Sequeira's observation;

"Where the murder was committed was probably the darkest part of the square, but there was sufficient light to enable the miscreant to perpetrate the deed."
Right, so how much is "sufficient"? Where did the light come from? The stars?

And, "miscreant"--really? Sounds like a light word for what Jack did to Kate.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:11 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Mmmm, it's hard to tell from his words if the doc was just stating the obvious, or whether he was making a judgement on the lighting level in that corner. However, since he was said to be familiar with the court, I'd plump for the latter. Although maybe he ate lots of carrots too.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:26 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
Right, so how much is "sufficient"? Where did the light come from? The stars?

And, "miscreant"--really? Sounds like a light word for what Jack did to Kate.
I believe there were two gas lamps inside the square which would have thrown at least some light into the corner, and one in the Mitre St entrance (which wouldn't).

You're right, though, he should have found a stronger term than "miscreant" for the naughty rascal.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:47 PM
Errata Errata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I believe there were two gas lamps inside the square which would have thrown at least some light into the corner, and one in the Mitre St entrance (which wouldn't).

You're right, though, he should have found a stronger term than "miscreant" for the naughty rascal.
miscreant is actually a pretty strong word. It just doesn't carry much weight anymore because it just sort of sounds bland. It's been overthrown onomatapoetically by tougher sounding words like "animal" and "monster". But in truth "miscreant" means depraved and vile. So fair usage, it just sounds mild to our ears.
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