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Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 23 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by packers stem 30 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 34 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 39 minutes ago.
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Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 2 hours ago.

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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #291  
Old 07-19-2018, 10:00 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
bingo. I made this very point with sam a while back.
And as i've countered in one of my posts earlier today. My own first or second initial can, and does, vary when I need to write more than one signature, especially on the first go. As I've said, this is why I take "practice runs" on scrap paper to get my signature working properly before committing my John Hancock to the official document which I am required to sign.

Anyone who disputes this is effectively calling me a liar. I am not lying, because this really happens, and I have frequently experienced it.
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  #292  
Old 07-19-2018, 10:26 AM
packers stem packers stem is online now
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
And as i've countered in one of my posts earlier today. My own first or second initial can, and does, vary when I need to write more than one signature, especially on the first go. As I've said, this is why I take "practice runs" on scrap paper to get my signature working properly before committing my John Hancock to the official document which I am required to sign.

Anyone who disputes this is effectively calling me a liar. I am not lying, because this really happens, and I have frequently experienced it.
That being your habit Sam , doesn't make it the norm .I personally have never heard of an adult practicing his signature and certainly not when he is signing important documents .
If that's your way then so be it but isn't it time we looked at probabilities as opposed to remote possibilities .
Walter Sickert played around with his signature , sometimes he was just Richard Sickert so should we see that as good cause to believe that Abberline would be likely to do the same , and that the Abberline Diaries could be genuine ?
They have been dismissed because of the F and G being the wrong way around .... what's wrong with that .May have been his own personal habit
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  #293  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:00 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
And as i've countered in one of my posts earlier today. My own first or second initial can, and does, vary when I need to write more than one signature, especially on the first go. As I've said, this is why I take "practice runs" on scrap paper to get my signature working properly before committing my John Hancock to the official document which I am required to sign.

Anyone who disputes this is effectively calling me a liar. I am not lying, because this really happens, and I have frequently experienced it.
I would never call you a liar Sam. I believe you.
In MY experience though-peoples sigs vary little with time, especially the first initial of there first and last name
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  #294  
Old 07-19-2018, 02:53 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
....
This statement is ALL that exists of the man supposedly named George Hutchinson , without this he doesn't exist ..... and the one thing it relies upon , namely the signature , is concerning .
Suppose the Hutchinson signatures are 'a fraud?'
How could Badham, Elisdon, Arnold & Abberline all sign a document previously signed by 'the man who never was'?
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  #295  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:34 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Starting to resemble Roger "Verbal" Kint.
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  #296  
Old Yesterday, 01:07 AM
packers stem packers stem is online now
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Suppose the Hutchinson signatures are 'a fraud?'
How could Badham, Elisdon, Arnold & Abberline all sign a document previously signed by 'the man who never was'?
Whether it's 'fraud' shouldn't really be in any doubt as all three signatures are different .... it's why ?
Yes , clearly they did all sign this document with varying Hutchinson signatures but I don't view the Victorian police through rose tinted spectacles .... would be rather naive to do so as we're supposed to be investigating rather than going in with 'blind faith' .If Abberline or Arnold in particular , wanted something countersigned it would have happened
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  #297  
Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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It just strikes me that when someone is intentionally copying the signature of someone else, they take great pains to make sure each signature is identical.
A fraudster pays more attention to what he is doing, more than someone who is just casually writing his own set of signatures.
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  #298  
Old Yesterday, 06:43 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Here is a paragraph, or so from the Globe, of 10 Nov. 88.
I have not found this in any other newspaper, it offers a few details that are different.



"...public house talking to a man. That was the last I saw of her, and it was then half-past nine o'clock" This statement seems to place the hour at which the atrocity was committed almost beyond doubt. Although rumours were current yesterday that the woman had been seen in the morning they could not be authenticated, and the opinion of the police was that the woman had been murdered during the night xxxxx man she took home to her lodgings. This theory xxxxxxxxx now been discarded, for Mrs. Maxwell xxxxxxxxx deceased well by sight, is emphatic xxxxxxxxxxx occasions she saw the deceased yesterday morning and also as to the conversation which passed between them. At half-past nine o'clock yesterday morning, therefore, the deceased was alive, and, according to her own statement was suffering from a drinking bout. Presumably, between half-past eight and half-past nine she had been drinking with a man who afterwards butchered her, for at the latter hour she was seen talking to a man outside a public house. Half an hour later, or at ten o'clock, the woman's body, hacked and mangled, was discovered in the little room to the view of anyone who chose to look through the window facing the court. At five minutes past ten the place was surrounded by police constables. Therefore, assuming Mrs. Maxwell's story to be absolutely accurate, the murderer must have walked in that half-hour from the public-house to the victim's lodgings, and in broad daylight slaughtered the woman and performed the most terrible barbarities afterwards....."


This early account, though inaccurate in some of the stated times, seems to suggest that the police at first were under the impression the murder had been committed over night, but that was discarded. As there were unconfirmed reports (by M.Lewis?), that the deceased was alive later in the morning.
It looks like Mrs. Maxwell's story was taken as confirmation of those unconfirmed reports.

This helps us understand the importance coroner Macdonald attributed to this story by requiring Maxwell to appear before the inquest.
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Last edited by Wickerman : Yesterday at 06:51 PM.
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