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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 78 39.39%
NO 120 60.61%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2681  
Old 05-12-2018, 02:54 PM
cnr cnr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The removal of the graffito can be seen, not so much as an acknowledgement on the part of the police that it was written by the killer, but as an attempt to prevent people from making such a connection, whether it was written by the killer or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
...the police considered it a serious possibility.
Hi Sam and etenguy.

...the police (including top cop, Warren) did believe the killer wrote the message, or as Inspector Moore said, it was "undoubtedly by the murderer".

As I've elaborated on these boards before (and elsewhere), the active term of the graffito was that of 'blame', and the subject, 'the Jews' (sp). In doing so, the graffito unlocks a moment in time and place: East End street sentiment was such, that the murders were already being blamed on the Jews. The social temperature was fever-pitched.

Note, for example, the anti-Jewish riot post-Chapman and the chants of "no Englishman" and "down with the Jews".

Even before the double-event, the newspapers had been tip-toeing around the issue of Jewish "blood guiltiness"*, trying to report such racist street talk and popular sentiment as conscientiously as possible - despite the ever increasing likelihood that the blood libel would burst onto the pages of the newspapers fully-fledged, as indeed it did.

They may well have rubbed it out successfully, but IMHO the graffito remains testament to Whitechapel and 1888.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

* to quote from one such report, ie the Star, 11 September 1888, quoted in both editions of my book, 2017 and 2018.
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  #2682  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:25 AM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by cnr View Post
Hi Sam and etenguy.

...the police (including top cop, Warren) did believe the killer wrote the message, or as Inspector Moore said, it was "undoubtedly by the murderer".
I, too, believe that the police considered the GSG written by the murderer, or at least believed there was a strong probability he had written it. This is borne out in their actions - and as you have quoted - some of their statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnr View Post
As I've elaborated on these boards before (and elsewhere), the active term of the graffito was that of 'blame', and the subject, 'the Jews' (sp). In doing so, the graffito unlocks a moment in time and place: East End street sentiment was such, that the murders were already being blamed on the Jews. The social temperature was fever-pitched.

Note, for example, the anti-Jewish riot post-Chapman and the chants of "no Englishman" and "down with the Jews".

Even before the double-event, the newspapers had been tip-toeing around the issue of Jewish "blood guiltiness"*, trying to report such racist street talk and popular sentiment as conscientiously as possible - despite the ever increasing likelihood that the blood libel would burst onto the pages of the newspapers fully-fledged, as indeed it did.

They may well have rubbed it out successfully, but IMHO the graffito remains testament to Whitechapel and 1888.

Stephen
http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-th...mitic-frameup/

* to quote from one such report, ie the Star, 11 September 1888, quoted in both editions of my book, 2017 and 2018.
I read the article you linked (good article by the way) but it did not convince me that the main motivation of the Ripper was to stop Jewish immigration. Though some good points made. However, I have not read your book, yet, and so withhold coming to any conclusions.

Certainly, in the context of the times, these murders would have stoked the anti immigration sentiment. We only have to look at the Brexit situation to get a real sense of the hostility immigrants in the UK face from certain groups of people and how blame attaches to them for a range of ills, almost automatically. The press continue to this day to act as bellows wherever they sniff the scent of a spark.

So the fact that the Jewish community came under fire during the Whitechapel murders is uncontested, but I wonder if this was simply an inevitable consequence of the situation in Whitechapel rather than the murderer having a political motivation. I guess I'll have to read the book to get a better understanding of your reasoning.
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  #2683  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:28 AM
cnr cnr is offline
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post

We only have to look at the Brexit situation to get a real sense of the hostility immigrants in the UK face from certain groups of people and how blame attaches to them for a range of ills, almost automatically. The press continue to this day to act as bellows wherever they sniff the scent of a spark.

Hi etenguy,

The excellent parallel you draw (above), actually came up during our Ripper Podcast discussion last night. I am reminded of that old French proverb: plus ça change, et plus c'est la même chose - the more things change, and the more they stay the same.

More generally you make some good points about the socio-political dynamics at play which I, personally, have found hard to turn away from. Certainly, I was very happy to be given the chance by Jonathan and his esteemed panel to talk a bit about those issues.

Stephen
http://www.pressreader.com/australia...81694025363295
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  #2684  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:57 AM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by cnr View Post
...actually came up during our Ripper Podcast discussion last night.
I was delighted to see that the makers of the podcast have a time machine, which is just what we need to solve these crimes.

Or is it simply confusion between the US and UK format of stating the date, where the 12th May becomes the 5th December.
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  #2685  
Old 05-13-2018, 04:00 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
Or is it simply confusion between the US and UK format of stating the date, where the 12th May becomes the 5th December.
That reminds me - I found this podcast a remarkable experience, with participants in four (or five) countries spanning three continents... and about as wide a range of time-zones as one could imagine
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  #2686  
Old 05-13-2018, 04:21 AM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
That reminds me - I found this podcast a remarkable experience, with participants in four (or five) countries spanning three continents... and about as wide a range of time-zones as one could imagine
And I look forward to listening to it, once I can find a couple of hours. Hopefully there are some roughly half hour natural breaks which will make it easier to fit in round the other commitments of the day.
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  #2687  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:37 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
I didn't think this was an example of the police generally theorising about who wrote the GSG. I took this simply as Halse trying to answer the question he was asked and explaining why he had concluded that the GSG had been freshly written. It gives us an opportunity now to decide whether his explanation is compelling.
It's clear.He was reasoning/theorising that it written by the ripper because it must have been written recently,if earlier it would have been rubbed out.And how do you resolve the problem of Long not being in the position to see if the graffito was there at 2:20 AM and that it could have been there.There was no way out of this,the rest is theory.Senior officials could have tried to verifiy by having Long demonstrate what he did at 2:20 AM,where did he shone the light, or search the houses/dwelling for the writer.


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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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Last edited by Varqm : 05-13-2018 at 10:47 AM.
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  #2688  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:23 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
It's clear.He was reasoning/theorising that it written by the ripper because it must have been written recently,if earlier it would have been rubbed out.
You and I read Halse's response to this question differently. I do not find any indication in his answer about who wrote the GSG. Halse is simply stating his opinion that the GSG was freshly written and then states why he believes that. Even if Halse is correct, and it was freshly written, it does not necessarily follow that the killer wrote the GSG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
And how do you resolve the problem of Long not being in the position to see if the graffito was there at 2:20 AM and that it could have been there.There was no way out of this,the rest is theory.Senior officials could have tried to verifiy by having Long demonstrate what he did at 2:20 AM,where did he shone the light, or search the houses/dwelling for the writer.
-
I'm not entirely sure where this line of reasoning is leading. It would be very easy for Long not to have noticed graffiti on a normal beat. Graffiti was common in the area and it would not stand out. It was the apron which drew attention to the graffiti. Of course it may have been there and then again possibly not. We have no way of knowing for sure.

We now, with the knowledge we have from reported actions and testimony, have to decide whether we can come to a conclusion about the author of the GSG. I personally believe it is highly likely it was written by the murderer, for all the reasons I mentioned in my earlier posts.
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  #2689  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:31 PM
Kattrup Kattrup is offline
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
. I personally believe it is highly likely it was written by the murderer, for all the reasons I mentioned in my earlier posts.
I agree. Freshly written, and consisting of tiny letters written at an uncomfortable height, and right above the apron.

I believe Jack wrote it.
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  #2690  
Old 05-13-2018, 01:38 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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I agree. Freshly written, and consisting of tiny letters written at an uncomfortable height, and right above the apron.
Unfortunately, there is nothing that says the writing was right above the apron, and all the evidence says is that one witness believed it looked fresh... even though there apparently wasn't any chalk-dust found on the floor of the passage.

The fact that it was written in small letters at an uncomfortable height, yet still appeared neat, suggests to me that it was written in a leisurely manner under favourable seeing conditions - as opposed to in the middle of the night, by a man on the run from the scene of a major crime.
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