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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #1  
Old 12-06-2015, 05:15 PM
richardh richardh is offline
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Default Prater's stairs

Following on from an active thread on these forums at the moment I would like to talk about the issue of Prater's stairs in the hope of arriving at a consensus of their configuration and position (if possible).

I have created a simple 3D of No.13 which, at the moment, has the stairs in an arbitrary position running parallel up against the partition wall.

Would this be a useful tool to develop further. What should be included and what would work better?
http://autumnofterror.com/13/13.html

(opens in Internet Explorer, Mozilla or Opera Browsers)
(Chrome Browser not supported)
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2015, 10:24 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
Following on from an active thread on these forums at the moment I would like to talk about the issue of Prater's stairs in the hope of arriving at a consensus of their configuration and position (if possible).

I have created a simple 3D of No.13 which, at the moment, has the stairs in an arbitrary position running parallel up against the partition wall.

Would this be a useful tool to develop further. What should be included and what would work better?
http://autumnofterror.com/13/13.html

(opens in Internet Explorer, Mozilla or Opera Browsers)
(Chrome Browser not supported)
I can't open it, But I have an issue with them running parallel to the partition wall.

It goes like this.

If the ceiling was 8 foot high and the stairs were pretty much standard with an 8 inch tread and a 6" riser, we need 15 stairs to go up 8 foot. 15 at 8 inches each is 120 inches or ten foot. If we add a three foot landing at the top of the stairs we are now out to 13 foot, all in a room either 12 or 15 foot across, it's tight, unless the stairs turn back on themselves. If they turn back on themselves they would lower the height just over the head of Mary's bed. If in the other hand they turn back on themselves, effectively cutting into Pratters room it makes her room incredibly small.

A tread narrower than 8" is very very narrow, even old 8" ones are a pain to go up and down, and a riser over 6" is a steep old climb.


I am assuming that Pratters doorway was in that left hand corner, looking from Dorset street.

If I was any Goid at posting drawings I'd draw it.

My chambers are in an old 1870s townhouse I measured those stairs.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2015, 01:49 AM
richardh richardh is offline
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I'll knock up some 3D screenshots and post them here later tonight. We can then start positioning doorways, stairs, landings etc.

Why couldn't you open the 3D window GUT? was it broke?

I've tested it on various PCs and it opened okay. It's a very small file and opens very quickly.

thanks

ps
Victorian houses tended to have very high ceilings.
pps
I always assumed Prater's door would be on the right looking at it from the street - so stairs running parallel to the partition (from Prater's passage entrance (ooh err!) to a short landing with Prater's room door on the left (going up the stairs).

I'll create a screenshot of what I mean.
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Last edited by richardh : 12-07-2015 at 01:53 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2015, 02:25 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
I'll knock up some 3D screenshots and post them here later tonight. We can then start positioning doorways, stairs, landings etc.

Why couldn't you open the 3D window GUT? was it broke?

I've tested it on various PCs and it opened okay. It's a very small file and opens very quickly.

thanks

ps
Victorian houses tended to have very high ceilings.
pps
I always assumed Prater's door would be on the right looking at it from the street - so stairs running parallel to the partition (from Prater's passage entrance (ooh err!) to a short landing with Prater's room door on the left (going up the stairs).

I'll create a screenshot of what I mean.

Thanks Richard.

I think because I've only got Chrome at the moment.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2015, 02:28 AM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
I'll knock up some 3D screenshots and post them here later tonight. We can then start positioning doorways, stairs, landings etc.

Why couldn't you open the 3D window GUT? was it broke?

I've tested it on various PCs and it opened okay. It's a very small file and opens very quickly.

thanks

ps
Victorian houses tended to have very high ceilings.
pps
I always assumed Prater's door would be on the right looking at it from the street - so stairs running parallel to the partition (from Prater's passage entrance (ooh err!) to a short landing with Prater's room door on the left (going up the stairs).

I'll create a screenshot of what I mean.
I agree about higher ceilings, but that only makes the run longer.

Every plan of the room ive seen (and I know they are only guesses) seems to have the top of the stairs at the left.

But I just can't see it working without a turn in the stairs somewhere.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2015, 04:06 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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I can't see the 3D on my iPad, just a bit of text. Does it only work on Windows machines?

I'm not sure where the stairs would be, but there would have to be some sort of landing, I think. As I understand it, there were two rooms on each of the three floors above the shed, and Prater's room, being no. 20, would have been on the top floor (assuming the numbering followed on from the rest of Miller's Court).
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2015, 01:27 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I can't see the 3D on my iPad, just a bit of text. Does it only work on Windows machines?

I'm not sure where the stairs would be, but there would have to be some sort of landing, I think. As I understand it, there were two rooms on each of the three floors above the shed, and Prater's room, being no. 20, would have been on the top floor (assuming the numbering followed on from the rest of Miller's Court).
If Praters room was the highest number, then there are 6 more rooms (14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19) to account for somewhere in No.26 Dorset St. We might expect the room directly above No. 13 to be 14, in keeping with the rest of the court (odd number on ground floor).

That being the case we would expect the last room, Praters room, to be at the top of the house, but apparently it was not.
Praters room was over the shed, overlooking Dorset St.

Elizabeth Prater, the occupant of the first floor front room,

Daily Telegraph. Nov 10

(Re: Kelly) She lived in No. 13 room, and mine is No. 20, which is almost over hers.
Star. Nov 10

I live at 20 Room, in Miller's-court, above the shed.

Daily Telegraph Nov 13

The numbering of rooms inside 26 must have been unconventional.
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Last edited by Wickerman : 12-07-2015 at 01:33 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2015, 02:13 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
That being the case we would expect the last room, Praters room, to be at the top of the house, but apparently it was not.
Praters room was over the shed, overlooking Dorset St.
Indeed she was, Jon. Nice to know I'm not the only one who holds that opinion; indeed I have no doubt that, if Prater were here now, she'd share the same view!
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2015, 02:30 PM
richardh richardh is offline
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So who was living in the room directly above No. 13 at that time?
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:42 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed she was, Jon. Nice to know I'm not the only one who holds that opinion; indeed I have no doubt that, if Prater were here now, she'd share the same view!
Hi Sam.
It's more than opinion though isn't it, we have there in black and white, "first floor front room"...."over the shed".

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
So who was living in the room directly above No. 13 at that time?
We have no idea Richard.
Even the 1891 census does not give occupants of every room.
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