Missing hour between Mitre Square and Goulston Street

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Harry

What if the killer was in the buildind in Wentworth St,when Long and Halse passed by?

Yes I must confess this had occurred to me too...risky as he could've been trapped in there, but no riskier than Hanbury or Dutfields...and it would account for a good part of the time...

Hope you're keeping well

All the best

Dave

[Harry D]

Jacob Levy had a brother who lived in the Wentworth building. Just sayin'.

[Wickerman]

What if the killer was in the buildind in Wentworth St,when Long and Halse passed by? As to my question on what corner of the apron was found in the building,I would guess the left ,and that the shape was more of a triangular shape than square or rectangular.Does it matter.I believe so.

I wouldn't read too much into the use of the word 'corner'. In other versions the word was 'portion'.
'Corner' could be a simple mishearing in the CLRO version, so any attempt to determine the shape as triangular due to the use of the word 'corner' is unfounded.

All the press versions use either 'portion' or 'piece', but none use 'corner'.


(CLRO) My attention was called to the apron – It was the corner of the apron with a string attached - The blood spots were of recent origin

(Daily News) My attention was called to the apron which the woman was wearing. It was a portion of an apron cut, with the string attached to it (produced). The blood stains on it are recent.

(Morning Advertiser) Was your attention called to this portion of an apron which was found upon the woman?-It was. There were stains of blood upon the apron.
Are the stains of recent origin?-They are.

(Times) Mr. Crawford. - Could you say whether the blood spots on the piece of apron produced were of recent origin? Witness. - They are of recent origin.


(CLRO) – I have seen a portion of an apron produced by Dr Phillips and stated to have been found in Goulstone Street It is impossible to say it is human blood I fitted the piece of apron which had a new piece of material on it which had been evidently sewn on to the piece I have – The seams of the borders of the two actually corresponding – Some blood and apparently faecal matter was found on the portion found in Goulstone Street.

(Daily Telegraph) [Coroner] Was your attention called to the portion of the apron that was found in Goulston-street? - Yes. I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body.

(Times) Dr. Phillips brought on a piece of apron which had been found by a policeman in Goulston-street.
Mr. Crawford. - Is it impossible to assert that it is human blood? Witness. - Yes; it is blood. On the piece of apron brought on there were smears of blood on one side as if a hand or a knife had been wiped on it. It fitted the piece of apron in evidence.

(Daily News) Dr. Phillips brought in a piece of apron found in Gouldstone street, which fits what is missing in the one found on the body. It is impossible to assert that the blood is human blood. It looks as if it had had a bloody hand or a bloody knife wiped upon it.

(Morning Advertiser) Dr. Phillips afterwards brought me a piece of apron which had been found in Goulstone-street by a policeman. The stains are those of blood, but it is impossible to say that it is human blood.
On the piece of apron brought in by Dr. Phillips were there smears of blood as if someone had wiped blood-stained hands upon it?-Yes. There were also some other stains.

(Morning Post) There was a piece of apron found in Goulston-street, with finger marks of blood upon it, which fits on to the piece left round the body.

(Standard) Was your attention called to the portion of the apron that was found in Goulston-street? - Yes, I fitted that portion, which was spotted with blood, to the remaining portion, which was still attached by strings to the body.

[Rosella]

If you look at the drawing of Eddowes by Dr Brown, drawn in situ at the crime scene, Kate is lying there completely exposed. Her clothing has been pulled/ cut apart. There is naturally no sign of the apron on the drawing.

As the Ripper would hardly have been fiddling about untying apron strings and the police didn't realise Eddowes was wearing a (blackened) apron until her clothes were removed at the mortuary, surely Jack would have just ripped the apron in two in one vertical clean cut? That is, when she was attacked by him and before the mutilation stage.

He then took one half (to wrap the kidney in perhaps) and left the other half with the body.

[harry]

Dave,
Glad to say I'm well.The killer being in the building would narrow the time element,and the apron piece not then discarded ,would discount the necessity for Long and Halse to be wrong.
John,
We ll a corner is a lot more precise,and was so de scribed as such by persons that came in close contact.They must have had a reason for de scribing it thus.My recollection is that there were two corners to an apron,left and right.
As to the wetness ,remember it had rained heavily earlier that night.It would have been wet underfoot,with pools of water on roads and in gutters.A re ady source of w ater if one wished or had reason to clean one,s hands.

[Wickerman]

Harry.

Did anyone else describe it as a corner?

PC Long used the word 'corner', but that was in describing where the piece of apron was wet.
In the corner of the corner I suppose?

[Damaso Marte]

In my view, the easiest explanation is that the apron was deposited at Goulston Street within minutes of the murder, and the policeman simply missed it the first time he patrolled the area. It was dark, he was not specifically looking for an apron, and he wasn't omniscient.

[Batman]

In my view, the easiest explanation is that the apron was deposited at Goulston Street within minutes of the murder, and the policeman simply missed it the first time he patrolled the area. It was dark, he was not specifically looking for an apron, and he wasn't omniscient.

I think one would expect that the longer he worked the less attentive he would be and not more, unless the alarm was raised before he found it.

[Wickerman]

In my view, the easiest explanation is that the apron was deposited at Goulston Street within minutes of the murder, and the policeman simply missed it the first time he patrolled the area. It was dark, he was not specifically looking for an apron, and he wasn't omniscient.

There was a street lamp close to the archway, and it might be safe to assume it was no darker at 1:50 than it was 30 minutes later.

Is there a difficulty in the killer depositing the contents at 'home', then returning to the streets to drop the soiled apron in Goulston St.?

[Batman]

Was Long on alert after Stride and or Eddowes before he found the Apron.

If so, it makes it look like Long was on the ball on night.

If not, well you only have Long to trust but doesn't one think that during the height of the Ripper murders, bloody aprons and odd graffiti above it would set off your attention.

[Wickerman]

Was Long on alert after Stride and or Eddowes before he found the Apron.

The timing of when Long was made aware of the murders is not given. He only claims to have been aware before he left for Commercial St. Stn. with the apron.

If I'm not mistaken the beat constable was expected to check doors & windows accessible from the street, that they were locked, which might include the common areas of tenement houses, the entrance-way where the piece was found.
If you notice, inside the entrance at the foot of the stairs there was a door that he may have been expected to check.

I can't see how he could have missed the piece of apron if it had been there.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jon

Was he supposed to check the locks on doors and windows on both sides of the road simultaneously? If so his progress would have been very much a zig-zag affair...wonder how long that would've really made his beat, (as opposed to that measured by the beat wheel)...

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

Was he supposed to check the locks on doors and windows on both sides of the road simultaneously? If so his progress would have been very much a zig-zag affair...wonder how long that would've really made his beat, (as opposed to that measured by the beat wheel)...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave.

If we were to read the rule verbatim it would by necessity need to be generic.
Each constable will apply the rule as circumstances dictate.

A question best posed to Neil I suspect.

[harry]

Dr Brown said,'"it was a corner of the apron with the string still attached".

[harry]

Perhaps we should look for a killer who cut corners.