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  #21  
Old 12-02-2018, 02:56 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTomKent View Post
I don't get the feeling anybody is dismissing it out of hand. I think that people are asking questions is a good sign that people are interested (I know I am) to see how she reached her conclusions. At this point, I don't have enough information to agree or disagree, but either way... it is interesting.
Don’t quote me, but I think she is a he.
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  #22  
Old 12-02-2018, 03:22 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Don’t quote me, but I think she is a he.
Correct.

Abby, short for Abednego. Or Abimelech. Or possibly Abiathar.
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  #23  
Old 12-02-2018, 03:34 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig H View Post
Hi john
I think we do have credible witnesses
Both PC Smith and Lawende saw a similar man with each of the victims 15 minutes before the body was found.
In each situation, the woman was comfortable with the man.
The most likely scenario is this was the Ripper
Craig
But fifteen minutes could easily mean the person with the vctim was not Jack.
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2018, 05:26 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
But fifteen minutes could easily mean the person with the vctim was not Jack.
That’s always a scenario that is open to us.
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:23 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Correct.

Abby, short for Abednego. Or Abimelech. Or possibly Abiathar.
Or simply from "young Frankenstein "


Steve
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2018, 02:14 AM
TomTomKent TomTomKent is offline
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Don’t quote me, but I think she is a he.
Absolutely my mistake.
Abby, I am very sorry for any offence caused, it was entirely unintentional, you have my unreserved apologies.
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2018, 05:58 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Absolutely my mistake.
Abby, I am very sorry for any offence caused, it was entirely unintentional, you have my unreserved apologies.
lol. no worries, and yes taken from Young Frankenstein
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:41 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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a lot of these explanations are based on my reasoned assumptions, such as lawende, Schwartz, cox, marshall, pc smith and mrs long probably saw the ripper. also that GSG was written by him. and from what we now know about serial killers and postmortem types.


Aged 28-43-witness descriptions (wd) and from the fact that many serial killers post mortem type usually start in late twenties. Dahmer, who I believe is closest to the ripper in MO and sig, started age 28.

Below average height-wd. and height of GSG

Stout, powerfully built-wd. and specifically Schwartz "broad shoulders.

Light brown/ ginger hair-wd. perhaps would explain discrepencies between brown, fair, carroty colored hair by witnesses. my son has curly/wiry sandy brown/ginger hair and based on lighting can look brown, dark brown, reddish and even blonde.

mustache-wd

Local, lived in immediate area-all murders within one square mile, gsg written in direction from mitre square headed back into heart of WC. killer seemed to know area very well.
Walked when committing murders, possible use of cart-see above. cart use is just a guess as it would aid escape and detection.

English-wd. especially ones who heard him talk. no mention of accent.

Gentile-"lipski!" and gsg. I doubt a jew would implicate his own kind.

Steady work, probably involving manuel labor-when he killed on holidays and weekends point to steady work. his ability to kill quickly and quietly point to being strong and in shape-kept up by work requiring "exercise".

Lower class but not poor-see above-steady job and wd-"respectable".

Had own place, though modest-see above steady job-would be able to afford. needed own bolt hole for trophies and post murder activities(masturbation and canabalism) plus to wash up in private. Abbarline didn't think you find him in "dossers kitchen".

Frequented pubs and drinker-blotchy with ale and what we know about serial killers-and that he felt comfortable fraternizing with prostitutes.

Single or dominated wife-needed privacy or spouse who wouldn't question strange behavior.

Knew prostitues and socialized with-seemed very comfortable around them and was able to convince them he was normal joe even at height of ripper scare.

Had problems having sex-guess based on no overt sexual behavior.

Former military and or navy/ sailor-many serial killers are and peaked cap-"like a sailor would wear".

Very familiar with knife-sig and MO point to this. escalation (millwood, tabram and on) point to someone used to carrying and using a knife. also contemperous expert opinion.

Accustomed to carrying knife before murder spree-see above. was probably fascinated with knives and used them a lot from early age.

Appears very cocky to people-
Thinks he is smarter than anyone else-
Self assured-this and above two based on interaction with victims-able to go from murder of stride to eddowes in short order. Marshal-"you would say anything but your prayers" etc. long-"will you?" "yes".

Cunning-able to ruse victims at height of ripper scare and get away at the nick of time. anyone who could pull off double event night would need to be cunning IMHO.

Experience cutting up animals-see above use with knife, and many serial killers start by torturing cutting up animals as youths.

Probable anatomical knowledge, possible medical/surgical experience-drs at the time and modern experts. evidence-cutting around navel, extraction of kidney. being able to do so quickly in limited light.

NO or very light criminal record-guess based on ability of getting away in nick of time. I think he was accustomed to and good at "getting away" with things.

No overt mental illness-wd, seemed normal, "smooth" even. plus I don't think if he had overt mental illness he would have been able to lure victims at height of ripper crimes, and stay un caught for that matter.

Read newspapers-the way he posed victims, wrote gsg-shock value-point to someone who enjoyed his work and how it affected everyone and would thus like to read about his work.

Main motivation-Fascinated with the female body and what his knife could do to it-based on wounds. internal and external parts targeted.sexual areas targeted. "playful" use of knife-nicking eddowes eyelids. no torture involved-everything post mortem.

Possible masterbation and or cannibalism with trophies/ parts-guess based on past post mortem type sk behavior. from hell letter. organs removed and taken away. trophies often used to relive fantasy and masturbate with.

Secondary motivation-Enjoyed shocking / toying with the public-victims displayed. gsg.

Looked down on police-guess based on much of above. dear boss letter.

No interest in torture, all interest post mortem-well known and see above

Curiosity big factor in motivation
-guess based on wounds and removal of internal parts and sig-wanted to see what they were like. and what his knife could do to the female body.


I know not very scientific, but there it is IMHO.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 12-03-2018 at 06:47 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:49 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
a lot of these explanations are based on my reasoned assumptions, such as lawende, Schwartz, cox, marshall, pc smith and mrs long probably saw the ripper. also that GSG was written by him. and from what we now know about serial killers and postmortem types.


Aged 28-43-witness descriptions (wd) and from the fact that many serial killers post mortem type usually start in late twenties. Dahmer, who I believe is closest to the ripper in MO and sig, started age 28.

Below average height-wd. and height of GSG

Stout, powerfully built-wd. and specifically Schwartz "broad shoulders.

Light brown/ ginger hair-wd. perhaps would explain discrepencies between brown, fair, carroty colored hair by witnesses. my son has curly/wiry sandy brown/ginger hair and based on lighting can look brown, dark brown, reddish and even blonde.

mustache-wd

Local, lived in immediate area-all murders within one square mile, gsg written in direction from mitre square headed back into heart of WC. killer seemed to know area very well.
Walked when committing murders, possible use of cart-see above. cart use is just a guess as it would aid escape and detection.

English-wd. especially ones who heard him talk. no mention of accent.

Gentile-"lipski!" and gsg. I doubt a jew would implicate his own kind.

Steady work, probably involving manuel labor-when he killed on holidays and weekends point to steady work. his ability to kill quickly and quietly point to being strong and in shape-kept up by work requiring "exercise".

Lower class but not poor-see above-steady job and wd-"respectable".

Had own place, though modest-see above steady job-would be able to afford. needed own bolt hole for trophies and post murder activities(masturbation and canabalism) plus to wash up in private. Abbarline didn't think you find him in "dossers kitchen".

Frequented pubs and drinker-blotchy with ale and what we know about serial killers-and that he felt comfortable fraternizing with prostitutes.

Single or dominated wife-needed privacy or spouse who wouldn't question strange behavior.

Knew prostitues and socialized with-seemed very comfortable around them and was able to convince them he was normal joe even at height of ripper scare.

Had problems having sex-guess based on no overt sexual behavior.

Former military and or navy/ sailor-many serial killers are and peaked cap-"like a sailor would wear".

Very familiar with knife-sig and MO point to this. escalation (millwood, tabram and on) point to someone used to carrying and using a knife. also contemperous expert opinion.

Accustomed to carrying knife before murder spree-see above. was probably fascinated with knives and used them a lot from early age.

Appears very cocky to people-
Thinks he is smarter than anyone else-
Self assured-this and above two based on interaction with victims-able to go from murder of stride to eddowes in short order. Marshal-"you would say anything but your prayers" etc. long-"will you?" "yes".

Cunning-able to ruse victims at height of ripper scare and get away at the nick of time. anyone who could pull off double event night would need to be cunning IMHO.

Experience cutting up animals-see above use with knife, and many serial killers start by torturing cutting up animals as youths.

Probable anatomical knowledge, possible medical/surgical experience-drs at the time and modern experts. evidence-cutting around navel, extraction of kidney. being able to do so quickly in limited light.

NO or very light criminal record-guess based on ability of getting away in nick of time. I think he was accustomed to and good at "getting away" with things.

No overt mental illness-wd, seemed normal, "smooth" even. plus I don't think if he had overt mental illness he would have been able to lure victims at height of ripper crimes, and stay un caught for that matter.

Read newspapers-the way he posed victims, wrote gsg-shock value-point to someone who enjoyed his work and how it affected everyone and would thus like to read about his work.

Main motivation-Fascinated with the female body and what his knife could do to it-based on wounds. internal and external parts targeted.sexual areas targeted. "playful" use of knife-nicking eddowes eyelids. no torture involved-everything post mortem.

Possible masterbation and or cannibalism with trophies/ parts-guess based on past post mortem type sk behavior. from hell letter. organs removed and taken away. trophies often used to relive fantasy and masturbate with.

Secondary motivation-Enjoyed shocking / toying with the public-victims displayed. gsg.

Looked down on police-guess based on much of above. dear boss letter.

No interest in torture, all interest post mortem-well known and see above

Curiosity big factor in motivation
-guess based on wounds and removal of internal parts and sig-wanted to see what they were like. and what his knife could do to the female body.


I know not very scientific, but there it is IMHO.


Abby,

Thank you for your response to my question.

First the GSG, I like many others are still not convinced that it is by the killer, but for the sake of argument, let's except it is.

We now have just what does "JUWES" mean, while i will personally go with it means Jewish persons, that is not the only possible alternative.
Those arguing for conspiracies have their answers as did our old friend Pierre.
And of course Tom Wescott has suggested it referees to the Stride murder, linking the two.


However again let's accept it is a misspelling of "Jews"

We then have the knotty question of how do we view the message.

Is it simply anti Semitic?

Is it an attempt to point a finger at the Jewish community?

Or is it someone boasting about themselves?


I have to say, I find it far to complicated to reach a conclusion which goes "Must be a Gentile".

2nd point, Lipski.

First point, it is far from certain that BS man was the Killer Of Stride, and while it is probably, it is not certain. Not is it certain that BS man was the Ripper. Again I feel it is probably so, but it is not certain.

Again however let's accept that BS man is JTR.

Several alternatives arise from here,

The obvious one that BS man is ridiculing Schwartz, whom for this purpose we must assume was obviously Jewish looking, what ever that actually means.


The second, and again it is often used alternative, is that BS man was calling to Pipeman.


There is another alternative which has been raised several times, most recently in the Lawende was silenced thread, by Pat post #790 in October.


This is related to the polish word for nosy, this is

wścibski

Now that does sound very similar to Lipski, and if said just once to a non Polish speaker, could perhaps be misheard, particularly if you were aware of the Name Lipski and the earlier case.

To me, that certainly causes enough doubt and again does not point towards a Gentile.
Of course you may disagree and as always such is fine by me



Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 12-03-2018 at 07:58 AM.
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2018, 08:25 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Abby,

Thank you for your response to my question.

First the GSG, I like many others are still not convinced that it is by the killer, but for the sake of argument, let's except it is.

We now have just what does "JUWES" mean, while i will personally go with it means Jewish persons, that is not the only possible alternative.
Those arguing for conspiracies have their answers as did our old friend Pierre.
And of course Tom Wescott has suggested it referees to the Stride murder, linking the two.


However again let's accept it is a misspelling of "Jews"

We then have the knotty question of how do we view the message.

Is it simply anti Semitic?

Is it an attempt to point a finger at the Jewish community?

Or is it someone boasting about themselves?


I have to say, I find it far to complicated to reach a conclusion which goes "Must be a Gentile".

2nd point, Lipski.

First point, it is far from certain that BS man was the Killer Of Stride, and while it is probably, it is not certain. Not is it certain that BS man was the Ripper. Again I feel it is probably so, but it is not certain.

Again however let's accept that BS man is JTR.

Several alternatives arise from here,

The obvious one that BS man is ridiculing Schwartz, whom for this purpose we must assume was obviously Jewish looking, what ever that actually means.


The second, and again it is often used alternative, is that BS man was calling to Pipeman.


There is another alternative which has been raised several times, most recently in the Lawende was silenced thread, by Pat post #790 in October.


This is related to the polish word for nosy, this is

wścibski

Now that does sound very similar to Lipski, and if said just once to a non Polish speaker, could perhaps be misheard, particularly if you were aware of the Name Lipski and the earlier case.

To me, that certainly causes enough doubt and again does not point towards a Gentile.
Of course you may disagree and as always such is fine by me



Steve
Hi el
thanks for the response and I really have no problem with anything you say here. just a couple of points.

Quote:
We then have the knotty question of how do we view the message.

Is it simply anti Semitic?

Is it an attempt to point a finger at the Jewish community?

Or is it someone boasting about themselves?


I have to say, I find it far to complicated to reach a conclusion which goes "Must be a Gentile".

i go with your number 2 above. I remeber reading an expert on cockney/victorian language that it means-the jews wont take the blame for anything. meaning they should.


also, abberline and others beleived it was meant to incriminate the jews at the time.


I don't think a jewish killer would implicate himself or incriminate his own kind-hence a gentile.


Quote:
The obvious one that BS man is ridiculing Schwartz, whom for this purpose we must assume was obviously Jewish looking, what ever that actually means.


The second, and again it is often used alternative, is that BS man was calling to Pipeman.

I think BS man was using the lipski slur/shout to scare off Schwartz, who looked very jewish according abberline.

Quote:
There is another alternative which has been raised several times, most recently in the Lawende was silenced thread, by Pat post #790 in October.


This is related to the polish word for nosy, this is

wścibski

Now that does sound very similar to Lipski, and if said just once to a non Polish speaker, could perhaps be misheard, particularly if you were aware of the Name Lipski and the earlier case.

To me, that certainly causes enough doubt and again does not point towards a Gentile.
Of course you may disagree and as always such is fine by me




interesting-but at no time does Schwartz state that he was a foreigner let alone polish. he also dosnt seem to be confused at what the man shouted. it was lipski-a slur used by local people against jews.

so I disagree- I doubt a jewish killer would use a jewish slur against another jewish man-hence a gentile.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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