Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Bury, W.H.: William Bury website - by Wyatt Earp 18 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - by albie 33 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - by albie 36 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - by albie 40 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - by albie 45 minutes ago.
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - by Rob1n 1 hour and 14 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Mary Jane Kelly: George Hutchinson Shadowing Sarah Lewis' Statement - (17 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Help On Some Details - (10 posts)
Bury, W.H.: William Bury website - (7 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - (5 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - (4 posts)
General Discussion: JTR's profession - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Shades of Whitechapel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-09-2019, 03:33 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Firstly, not simultaneous. Secondly, Battersea and Whitechapel are not the same geographical area.

Details, Fish, details...
Overlapping equals simultaneous. Nobody is suggesting that he killed all victims in the exact same minute.

We have no idea whether he picked up any of the victims in Battersea, by the way - if you can go from Whitechapel to Battersea, you can go from Battersea to Whitechapel. And double quick, too.

Details, Gareth, details - and facts!

Of course, your purpose will be to obfuscate. The sum of all matters will nevertheless be that we know of no obstacle at all preventing the two series to have been perpetrated by the same killer. Not a single one.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-09-2019, 03:50 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,600
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Overlapping equals simultaneous. Nobody is suggesting that he killed all victims in the exact same minute.
I didn't think you were suggesting anything of the kind, and neither am I, but when the goalposts are as much as 15 years apart, any claims of simultaneity need to be worded with more caution. With overlaps of that magnitude, and bearing in mind the number of (non-Ripper, non-torso) murders that occurred during that period, false positives are a distinct possibility, if not inevitable.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-09-2019, 04:00 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I didn't think you were suggesting anything of the kind, and neither am I, but when the goalposts are as much as 15 years apart, any claims of simultaneity need to be worded with more caution. With overlaps of that magnitude, and bearing in mind the number of (non-Ripper, non-torso) murders that occurred during that period, false positives are a distinct possibility, if not inevitable.
There WAS a simultaneous existence of these two series, spanning over 100 per cent of the Ripper murders and much less of the Torso murders. That is one of the major reasons for suggesting a common originator. Maybe we should take stock from that instead of quibbling over it?

And no, "false positives" are not inevitable at all. Don't be silly. I could make a much easier case for myself by leaving those murders out, and we would have an 1887-1889 span, and you would be deprived of your "point". But I don't, because I am certain that the man who killed the 1873 victim was the same man who killed Kelly.

Last edited by Fisherman : 01-09-2019 at 04:05 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-09-2019, 04:57 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,384
Default

Thank you for taking the time to address my points, Fisherman. I would never say that the Thames Torso Murders and Whitechapel murders are not connected. However, it is a sticking point for me that a serial killer who dumped bodies for years at a time would take to the streets and kill at a much higher rate whilst switching between his previous MO. Is there any precedent for this?
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:23 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,230
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Thank you for taking the time to address my points, Fisherman. I would never say that the Thames Torso Murders and Whitechapel murders are not connected. However, it is a sticking point for me that a serial killer who dumped bodies for years at a time would take to the streets and kill at a much higher rate whilst switching between his previous MO. Is there any precedent for this?
hi Harry
Good question, probably not that specific, but bundy went from home invasion attacks to public ruses and then dumping back to home invasion. The boston strangler went raping and killing back to just raping. BTK went from home invasions to abduction and dumping.
Gacy stashed some victims in his house and dumped others. Kemper murdered his grandparents at their house, later abducted victims and left there bodies outside but brought body parts to his place, also buried parts at his moms house, and then killed his mother at her place.

There are more examples, but not sure of something as specific as you asked, but Ill keep looking. Maybe fish knows more.


so bottom line serial killers switch up there MOs, sometimes drastically, so the switch between dumping and leaving as is-- is no great impediment IMHO. Also, the end result in both series is horrifically mutilated victims left/distributed in public with no overt attemts to hide, seemingly for some kind of shock value.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:20 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bottesford, Leicestershire
Posts: 3,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
That is what your naming Eyraud as a likely Pinchin Street killer has contributed, and it is not half bad in a sense - it is a textbook example of how not so solve murder cases.
Murder cases? I was first on the scene at two murders, both of them detected, one of them detected by me. I don't think that's too bad.
__________________
Regards, Bridewell.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.