Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by MrBarnett 26 minutes ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - by Wickerman 45 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - by Batman 3 hours ago.
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - by Wickerman 4 hours ago.
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - by Trevor Marriott 4 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 5 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (91 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (31 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: distances between kills.odd - (19 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - (11 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (9 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: The Christie Case - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-18-2015, 04:38 PM
SuspectZero SuspectZero is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New York City
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Regards Pierre
Hi Pierre,
You answer all of Harry's questions/statements as if you have first hand knowledge. Unless you have a detailed confession from the killer providing details that are exactly in line with your responses, you are speculating and instead should say "I believe" or "I think".
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-18-2015, 04:44 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

Well, I think that if Stride's killer wasn't Jack but a first-timer then he did an excellent job of finishing her off. No hesitations, no tentative stabs, just one swift, sure, deep slash across a throat that was at least partly obscured by a silky scarf. In the dark as well!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-18-2015, 04:50 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,678
Default

You have a lone woman who if she was not actively soliciting was described as a prostitute. Killed at night on the street with a cut to the throat with no apparent motive. On a night when Jack (if you believe he killed Eddowes) was out and very near by.

c.d.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-18-2015, 05:17 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,435
Default

We have several options don't we.

1. Same killer: The murder method is close but not identical.
Possibly disturbed, hence no mutilations.
Was he hiding in shadows when body found?
If not are we to assume the witnessed assault at the
same spot earlier actually scared him off.

Or has some suggest was the double event planned and
there was no intention to mutilate. Such a theory as this
would require considerable evidence.

2. Different killer: Just a common assault?
Domestic has been suggested.
It has been suggested by some who feel uncomfortable
with Kosminski that he may have committed this one alone

The feeling at the time by the police appears to be that the murders were linked, even if the wounds were not identical and it was the only one so far south of Whitechapel High Street. There must have been some reason for this. it is possible that the reason for this, the evidence, has been lost with time.
On the Balance of probability I include Stride, but then I include Mckenzie as well
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-19-2015, 12:14 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default Imperator

Hello Harry. Thanks for this.

Nice to see someone who can say, "Perhaps the Emperor has no clothes on."

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-19-2015, 04:29 AM
DJA DJA is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Some Australian Mountain Range.
Posts: 1,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
How many men wore peaked caps back then, Abby?
Eleven a side,plus another to sing about it.
__________________
My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-19-2015, 07:27 AM
Observer Observer is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
Well, I think that if Stride's killer wasn't Jack but a first-timer then he did an excellent job of finishing her off. No hesitations, no tentative stabs, just one swift, sure, deep slash across a throat that was at least partly obscured by a silky scarf. In the dark as well!
Hi Rosella

You're in reasonably good company regarding the above. This is what Wynne E Baxter had to say.



. "In the absence of motive, the age and class of woman selected as victim, and the place and time of the crime, there was a similarity between this case and those mysteries which had recently occurred in that neighbourhood. There had been no skilful mutilation as in the cases of Nichols and Chapman, and no unskilful injuries as in the case in Mitre-square - possibly the work of an imitator; but there had been the same skill exhibited in the way in which the victim had been entrapped, and the injuries inflicted, so as to cause instant death and prevent blood from soiling the operator, and the same daring defiance of immediate detection,"

I personaly believe he was not far wrong in his belief

Regards

Observer
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-19-2015, 07:43 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,678
Default

"If mutilation was the key, why would the killer attack his victim next to a busy social club?"

Hello Harry,

You can also turn that around and ask why anybody would kill in that location. If the location was bad for Jack it was also bad for a non-Jack killer.

c.d.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-19-2015, 07:53 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,666
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
"If mutilation was the key, why would the killer attack his victim next to a busy social club?"

Hello Harry,

You can also turn that around and ask why anybody would kill in that location. If the location was bad for Jack it was also bad for a non-Jack killer.

c.d.
True, but if the non-Jack killer supporters use the domestic dispute scenario, then an element of crime of passion enters into this, in which he may not have been thinking all that clearly when he murdered Liz.
This is at odds with some Jack as killer supporters who believe he was more calculated about killing at that location, while still others just interpret it as a crime of opportunity.
I think that if Jack meant to leave her in the yard, then he may have been one of the men seen with her earlier in the evening.
__________________
Pat D.
---------------
Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
---------------
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-19-2015, 08:15 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,678
Default

Hello Pat,

Why does a crime of passion have to be limited to a non-Jack killer? I can see Jack overcome with a desire to kill this woman only to come to the realization a few minutes later that this was not a good place to do it and that he had made a mistake.

As for a domestic, I would expect an argument which nobody heard post Schwartz as well as a few slaps to the face in an escalation of anger. No evidence for either. Also no stabs to the body which would indicate uncontrollable anger. What happened seems all too controlled and calculated.

c.d.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.