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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > General Suspect Discussion

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  #1  
Old 04-28-2018, 01:45 PM
Pandora Pandora is offline
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Default What EAR/ONS teaches us about JtR

Two really important things have been highlighted with the capture of Joseph James DeAngelo aka EAR/ONS (providing no further murders are attached to him post 1986) that we can also apply to JtR.

The first being that a serial killer in the same league as JtR (and actually much worse than Jack if we are to believe the numbers) was able to stop committing murders for more than 30 years. Let that sink in. If JtR was also able to stop himself (rather than die, move or end up in prison as are the commonly believed scenario’s for Jack) then he may have continued living well into his old age. This means we can’t so easily overlook a raft of previously discarded suspects, who lived normal lives post 1888.

And just as importantly, EAR/ONS continued to live in the area. He was known to harass & stalk his victims post the crime, and is now suspected of keeping an eye on victims he may have known the whereabouts of, in order to relive his crimes. This sounds so plausible for Jack as well, if he truly was a local who has slipped under the radar. Maybe being in close proximity to the crime scenes for the remainder of his life, was enough to satiate his urges.

I follow the EARONS sub on Reddit, where the case has been discussed for years, much like these forums on Casebook. The main thing the long term posters are saying is, all the crazy theories & over thinking of the case is what led many astray, and that the most logical suspect was clear from the given information & know facts. A cop (he knew too much about police procedures). Ex Navy (he was skilled in tying specialty Navy knots). A local (he knew his escape routes well, and often left on foot or by bicycle). A women in his life named Bonnie (his ex fiancée, who he never married. Many claimed the victim misheard “Bonnie” as “Mommy” – they were wrong). His strange smell (he was fired from the police for stealing Dog Repellent Spray. The strange odour attributed to him by victims, was discarded as BO, yet the dog repellent spray theft by JJD made it into the papers at the time). And that's just to name a few.

The evidence was all there, but was argued away by people who felt he must have been more of a monster, that he couldn’t hide in plain sight. Joseph James DeAngelo has proved them all wrong.

If we eliminate all the unlikely theories about Jack, all the fantastical scenarios, and focus JUST on the evidence, what do we have?

I'll start. I believe he was a Whitechapel local, who knew his way around. Not some out of towner who came to Whitechapel to commit murder, but a poor, working class local who lived in the immediate area of the crime scenes. That's how he always managed to disappear so quickly after each murder. He probably just went home.
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2018, 02:40 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
Two really important things have been highlighted with the capture of Joseph James DeAngelo aka EAR/ONS (providing no further murders are attached to him post 1986) that we can also apply to JtR.

The first being that a serial killer in the same league as JtR (and actually much worse than Jack if we are to believe the numbers) was able to stop committing murders for more than 30 years. Let that sink in. If JtR was also able to stop himself (rather than die, move or end up in prison as are the commonly believed scenario’s for Jack) then he may have continued living well into his old age. This means we can’t so easily overlook a raft of previously discarded suspects, who lived normal lives post 1888.

And just as importantly, EAR/ONS continued to live in the area. He was known to harass & stalk his victims post the crime, and is now suspected of keeping an eye on victims he may have known the whereabouts of, in order to relive his crimes. This sounds so plausible for Jack as well, if he truly was a local who has slipped under the radar. Maybe being in close proximity to the crime scenes for the remainder of his life, was enough to satiate his urges.

I follow the EARONS sub on Reddit, where the case has been discussed for years, much like these forums on Casebook. The main thing the long term posters are saying is, all the crazy theories & over thinking of the case is what led many astray, and that the most logical suspect was clear from the given information & know facts. A cop (he knew too much about police procedures). Ex Navy (he was skilled in tying specialty Navy knots). A local (he knew his escape routes well, and often left on foot or by bicycle). A women in his life named Bonnie (his ex fiancée, who he never married. Many claimed the victim misheard “Bonnie” as “Mommy” – they were wrong). His strange smell (he was fired from the police for stealing Dog Repellent Spray. The strange odour attributed to him by victims, was discarded as BO, yet the dog repellent spray theft by JJD made it into the papers at the time). And that's just to name a few.

The evidence was all there, but was argued away by people who felt he must have been more of a monster, that he couldn’t hide in plain sight. Joseph James DeAngelo has proved them all wrong.

If we eliminate all the unlikely theories about Jack, all the fantastical scenarios, and focus JUST on the evidence, what do we have?

I'll start. I believe he was a Whitechapel local, who knew his way around. Not some out of towner who came to Whitechapel to commit murder, but a poor, working class local who lived in the immediate area of the crime scenes. That's how he always managed to disappear so quickly after each murder. He probably just went home.
If that were the case I suspect Whitechapel would have given him up.

I dont think you can totally compare a modern day serial killer to one who killed 130 years ago. The world has changed since 1888.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2018, 03:06 PM
Pandora Pandora is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
If that were the case I suspect Whitechapel would have given him up.

I dont think you can totally compare a modern day serial killer to one who killed 130 years ago. The world has changed since 1888.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
I agree for sure, that the world has changed - and I'm not comparing the JtR & EAR/ONS persay. The point I was trying to make was, if the common theories in regards to EAR/ONS had overlooked the simple explanation, for more fantastical theories - perhaps the same has happened with JtR?

If we eliminate all the far fetched theories, and follow Occam's Razor principle, what are the most likely scenario's we are left with?
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2018, 04:10 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
I agree for sure, that the world has changed - and I'm not comparing the JtR & EAR/ONS persay. The point I was trying to make was, if the common theories in regards to EAR/ONS had overlooked the simple explanation, for more fantastical theories - perhaps the same has happened with JtR?

If we eliminate all the far fetched theories, and follow Occam's Razor principle, what are the most likely scenario's we are left with?
Two in my opinion, the first is like you said a local. the second is someone who went into Whitechapel to kill and was able to get out undetected. On that basis if you look at the majority of the murders they were all in easy reach of main thoroughfares, making it easy for the killer to then blend in with the rest of the public who were about in those main thoroughfares at that time of the morning. So neither can be proved or disproved. We get back to personal opinions.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2018, 04:31 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
I agree for sure, that the world has changed - and I'm not comparing the JtR & EAR/ONS persay. The point I was trying to make was, if the common theories in regards to EAR/ONS had overlooked the simple explanation, for more fantastical theories - perhaps the same has happened with JtR?

If we eliminate all the far fetched theories, and follow Occam's Razor principle, what are the most likely scenario's we are left with?
Ocean says that Mr UN Known done it.

And jack’s family haven’t entered DNA In ancestry and if they did there’s nothing to compare it to.

No not even a stained table cloth.
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:42 PM
Pandora Pandora is offline
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Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Ocean says that Mr UN Known done it.

And jack’s family haven’t entered DNA In ancestry and if they did there’s nothing to compare it to.

No not even a stained table cloth.
Hi GUT,

You've misinterpreted my post, so perhaps I wasn’t clear enough.

I am not suggesting that there is DNA connected to JtR, and I am not suggesting that EAR/ONS crime spree is similar to JtR’s.

The point I was trying to make was, that many of the EAR/ONS amateur investigators, fell victim to overthinking the evidence, which led them to creating much more fantastical theories, than the simple more logical solution.

IE: He didn’t die, he stopped. He didn’t move, he lived local. Many in the EAR/ONS camp thought he stopped because he died or moved – much like many in the Ripper camp. I’m simply suggesting we look at what we do know, and apply the simplest logic to it.
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:43 PM
Pandora Pandora is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Two in my opinion, the first is like you said a local. the second is someone who went into Whitechapel to kill and was able to get out undetected. On that basis if you look at the majority of the murders they were all in easy reach of main thoroughfares, making it easy for the killer to then blend in with the rest of the public who were about in those main thoroughfares at that time of the morning. So neither can be proved or disproved. We get back to personal opinions.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Sure, fair enough. Back to the same old conversations then.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2018, 06:05 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by Pandora View Post
Hi GUT,

You've misinterpreted my post, so perhaps I wasn’t clear enough.

I am not suggesting that there is DNA connected to JtR, and I am not suggesting that EAR/ONS crime spree is similar to JtR’s.

The point I was trying to make was, that many of the EAR/ONS amateur investigators, fell victim to overthinking the evidence, which led them to creating much more fantastical theories, than the simple more logical solution.

IE: He didn’t die, he stopped. He didn’t move, he lived local. Many in the EAR/ONS camp thought he stopped because he died or moved – much like many in the Ripper camp. I’m simply suggesting we look at what we do know, and apply the simplest logic to it.
But what is more likely

He just stopped

Or

He died or was caught (maybe for something else).

I know which has been most common.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:50 PM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Quote:
I believe he was a Whitechapel local, who knew his way around. Not some out of towner who came to Whitechapel to commit murder, but a poor, working class local who lived in the immediate area of the crime scenes. That's how he always managed to disappear so quickly after each murder. He probably just went home.
It is the simplest solution with the fewest assumptions.

If it was a scientific theory which had been peer reviewed this would be in the text books.
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:10 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Sure, fair enough. Back to the same old conversations then.
Sadly, that how its going to stay. the old accepted theories are hard for some hard line researchers to dismiss in favor of other new alternatives.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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