"A Chance Meeting In Paris"

[Howard Brown]

Chris...

Please provide the date that the 1861 serialized ' A Strange Story" came out for everyone...

If it came out in the early part of 1861...hmmmmm.....it would make no sense for D'Onston to say " after the release of the book in the following Spring"....if it came out in Spring or Summer or Fall of 1861.

Go check. Thanks !

Yours

How

By the way, for all you innocent bystanders:

The concern with egoism led to a preoccupation with villainy. In defence of the subject matter of his Newgate novels, Bulwer argued that crime reveals deep truth about human nature. This was another of his seminal ideas. Arbaces the magician in The Last Days of Pompeii (1834), last descendant of the Egyptian royal line, is a gloomy, sensual aristocratic criminal. The theme was more deeply explored in his occult stories. In The Haunted and the Haunters†(1857), he presents a malevolent character who transcends the Byronic to create a fascinating image of daemonic will. In the full version of the story, he is encountered in his contemporary embodiment as Richards, the mysterious long-lived being responsible for the hauntings. Sometimes described as the best ghost story ever written, this is arguably his masterpiece. He cut it short in later editions, because he wanted to develop the theme into a full-length novel. It became A Strange Story (1862), where the same malignant will is personified as Margrave, an evil character who wants to live forever. This desire comes across as a powerful image of life affirmation, though in the form of black magic.

From: http://www.mith.demon.co.uk/Bulwer.htm
1862

[Chris]

I told you before I that I K-N-O-W that the goddamned thing was in serial form in 1861. Do you deny that the book....b-o-o-k came out in 1862 ?

This is utterly ridiculous. Stephenson didn't refer to a "book". He referred to "the publication". The first publication was in 1861. You can easily find out the exact dates by using Google in the way I suggested.

Why on earth should I waste my time doing for you what you can easily do for yourself? What would be the good of it? You have come out with a string of false statements on this thread, and you haven't had the honesty to correct a single one!

[Stewart P Evans]

First Published

I don't want to get involved in all this but just to repeat what I posted in the past, 'A Strange Story' by Bulwer-Lytton was first published in Blackwood's Magazine in 1859 and first appeared in book form in Tales From Blackwood (First Series) Volume X, n.d. [but 1860]. Blackwood's Magazine, of course, is where Anderson's The Lighter Side of My Official Life was serialised 1909-1910, prior to appearing in book form.

[Chris]

I don't want to get involved in all this but just to repeat what I posted in the past, 'A Strange Story' by Bulwer-Lytton was first published in Blackwood's Magazine in 1859 and first appeared in book form in Tales From Blackwood (First Series) Volume X, n.d. [but 1860]. Blackwood's Magazine, of course, is where Anderson's The Lighter Side of My Official Life was serialised 1909-1910, prior to appearing in book form.

Strictly speaking, that's "The Haunted and the Haunters", the short story that Lytton later expanded as "A Strange Story" (if I understand correctly).

That issue of Blackwood's (Vol. 86 (526) Aug 1859) is available on the Internet Library of Early Journals website (http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ilej/). "The Haunted and the Haunters" starts at p. 224.

[Robert]

"The House and the Brain" is another title sometimes used. Great story!

[Howard Brown]

I'll just leave this here for the people to decide what version of the Lytton story Stephenson was referring to. The additional information provided by SPE and Robert are most appreciated as always.
*********************************

It was in the winter after the publication of the weird " Strange Story " in which the Master attempted to teach the world many new and important truths (under the veil of fiction) that I made the acquaintance at Paris of young Lytton, the son of (the then) Sir Edward. He was at that time, I suppose, about ten years my senior; and though passionately attached to his father, who was both father and mother to him, did not share my intense admiration and enthusiasm for his mystic studies and his profound lore.
Anyhow, in the spring following, he presented me to his father as an earnest student of occultism. I was then about 22* years of age, and I suppose Sir Edward was attracted to me partly by my irrepressible hero-worship, of which he was the object, and partly because he saw that I possessed a cool, logical brain and iron nerve ; and, above all, was genuinely, terribly in earnest. ---Borderland, 1896
************************************

* This numerical age is found in the O'Donnell Manuscript, but for some reason it does not appear in other reproductions of the Borderland article.

This is all I have to say about the matter.

I stand by my presentation that D'Onston...who knew how old he was when he first read the story...provides a false sequence of events and never met Lytton Jr. or Sr. period.

He was in Hull in the Spring of 1863, when he was 22 and "about 22".
He could not have studied in Europe under Allan, if Allan was in Manchester by 1849.
Without this basis for being in Europe ( studying under Allan) there is no other basis for D'Onston to be in Europe and subsequently meet Lytton Jr....in Paris...and we do not know if Lytton Jr. even stopped in Paris during that time anyway.

Thats it for me. The people can decide for themselves.

[Chris]

Howard Brown

No one is arguing about whether or not this alleged encounter took place - only about your misstatements of fact.

How many times does it have to be repeated?

Stephenson did not give a date for the alleged encounter. He gave several contradictory indications of when it was supposed to have taken place, all of which are either approximate or - if you don't accept that "publication" means the first publication in serial form - ambiguous.

Surely that is simple enough. I can't for the life of me understand why it's necessary to have all these interminable arguments about it.

[Stewart P Evans]

Vice Versa

Strictly speaking, that's "The Haunted and the Haunters", the short story that Lytton later expanded as "A Strange Story" (if I understand correctly).

That issue of Blackwood's (Vol. 86 (526) Aug 1859) is available on the Internet Library of Early Journals website (http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ilej/). "The Haunted and the Haunters" starts at p. 224.

According to my sources, and the British Library, it was first published as 'A Strange Story' and later expanded and called 'The Haunted and the Haunters' under which title it appears in most modern ghost story collections.

[Stewart P Evans]

Suspects

...
Chris, I greatly admire the dedicated work that you do as I do so many others in the community. You know that. I have no axe to grind with you as a person, but only how you approach my methodology in trying to determine facts about D'Onston and disseminating them to the community. D'Onston was a former suspect and all this hoopla over a year he could,would,should or didn't meet this guy or that guy does not affect his non-suspect status. The Currie Ward protocol did that...

'non-suspect status.' - which term raises the obvious questions - what, then, is a suspect? Are there types of suspect? Are there degrees of suspect? Are there only certain types of person who suspect a person that qualifies the subject to be a suspect? Are there criteria that make a suspect a suspect? Can a suspect be changed from a suspect into a 'non-suspect'? By whose decree can this status be changed? Is this an exercise in semantics? I suspect that I am getting confused. I suspect that I am straying into a minefield. I suspect that there are those who do not know what they are talking about. I suspect that I may be one of those. I suspect that I should drop this altogether. I suspect...

[Chris]

According to my sources, and the British Library, it was first published as 'A Strange Story' and later expanded and called 'The Haunted and the Haunters' under which title it appears in most modern ghost story collections.

Sorry, that's the wrong way round.

The 1859 Blackwood's publication you referred to was definitely "The Haunted and the Haunters" - I checked on the ILEJ website.

Here is the publication history of "A Strange Story", from The Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature, p. 1164 (1999):

[Stewart P Evans]

A Strange Story

Sorry, that's the wrong way round.
The 1859 Blackwood's publication you referred to was definitely "The Haunted and the Haunters" - I checked on the ILEJ website.
Here is the publication history of "A Strange Story", from The Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature, p. 1164 (1999):
[ATTACH]4422[/ATTACH]

Below is the British Library catalogue entry for the 1861 Tauchnitz edition. The later novel was definitely 'The Haunted and the Haunters', many printings of which have since been published.

[Chris]

Below is the British Library catalogue entry for the 1861 Tauchnitz edition. The later novel was definitely 'The Haunted and the Haunters', many printings of which have since been published.

The problem is that "The Haunted and the Haunters" wasn't actually a novel (for that reason, it doesn't have an entry in the bibliography I posted an excerpt from, which doesn't include individual short stories). It has certainly been reprinted many times, perhaps sometimes as an individual volume.

But we know for sure that the first publication of "A Strange Story" was in 1861, in "All the Year Round", whereas "The Haunted and the Haunters" had appeared in 1859 in Blackwood's. (Some Internet sources date it to 1857, but I don't know whether that's reliable.)

[Howard Brown]

'non-suspect status.' - which term raises the obvious questions - what, then, is a suspect? Are there types of suspect? Are there degrees of suspect? Are there only certain types of person who suspect a person that qualifies the subject to be a suspect? Are there criteria that make a suspect a suspect? Can a suspect be changed from a suspect into a 'non-suspect'? By whose decree can this status be changed? Is this an exercise in semantics? I suspect that I am getting confused. I suspect that I am straying into a minefield. I suspect that there are those who do not know what they are talking about. I suspect that I may be one of those. I suspect that I should drop this altogether. I suspect...

Who decides whom is a suspect? I suppose or suspect that if an individual is prevented from be-bopping around at night on the streets while murders are occurring would be one way.

As to not knowing what one is talking about, is that a reference to me,perhaps?

[Stewart P Evans]

No

As to not knowing what one is talking about, is that a reference to me,perhaps?

No, me actually, but I thought that was obvious...

[Stewart P Evans]

Who

Who decides whom is a suspect? I suppose or suspect that if an individual is prevented from be-bopping around at night on the streets while murders are occurring would be one way.

Ah, but that is the conclusion, not the who. I hadn't noticed that any 'rock solid' alibis had ever prevented an individual from being a suspect.