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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > General Suspect Discussion

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  #11  
Old 12-28-2017, 05:38 PM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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The photograph of Sims, which supposedly resembled the Ripper, was on the cover of Sims's pamphlet "The Social Kaleidoscope" (1881).

And yes, he did have a full beard.

Here's a rather poor copy of the photograph.

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/10624.html
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2017, 06:35 PM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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Indeed, it was the "Social Kaleidescope​." I stand corrected.
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When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2017, 05:12 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
None of these men had beards. Thereby nullifying the premise that the killer looked anything like Sims.
I'm not sure that I follow the logic here...if, as you say, it's unlikely that any of the potential sightings was actually the killer, how does the fact that they didn't have a beard show that the killer didn't?
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2017, 05:43 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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A compromise

http://www.jtrforums.com/attachment....d=128819880 3
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  #15  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:37 PM
SuspectZero SuspectZero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Station Cat View Post
George Robert Sims

Sims was born in 1847 and educated at Bonn University. He took up journalism in 1874 and enjoyed wide popularity as a novelist, playwright and poet. He is perhaps best remembered as the author of the much parodied ballad, It Is Christmas Day In The Workhouse. He used his excellent police contacts to write about the Ripper murders for the publication The Referee, under the pseudonym Dragonet. Sims claimed that in 1888 a coffee stallholder in Whitechapel saw a portrait of Sims advertising his latest book, and believed he was the likeness of a suspicious man with bloodstained cuffs who had come to his stall shortly after the double murder, and announced to the stallholder that he would hear of two more murders the following day. Sims would make frequent references to this story, and appeared to believe the Ripper looked exactly like himself.

A successful playwright, his most notable success was The Light of London, his autobiography My Life - Sixty Years Recollections Of Bohemian London, was published in 1917. Sims later came to believe the rumours that the Ripper was Montague John Druitt. In 1913 to counter these rumours Inspector John Littlechild wrote to Sims naming Dr Tumblety as a more likely suspect, this became known as the Littlechild letter. Sims died in 1922.




http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...orley/168.html
I quote from the police description provided after the George Hutchinson interview: "Description: age about 34 or 35, height 5ft 6, complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes, slight moustache curled up each end and hair dark, very surley looking; dress, long dark coat, collar and cuffs trimmed astracan and a dark jacket under, light waistcoat, dark trousers, dark felt hat turned down in the middle, button boots and gaiters with white buttons, wore a very thick gold chain, white linen collar, black tie with horse shoe pin, respectable appearance, walked very sharp, Jewish appearance. Can be identified."

Seems like he borrowed part of the description from a photo of Sims......including the horseshoe pin. Who can see that kind of detail in the dark from the distance he claimed he viewed the man?
Clearly this was a lie.

Last edited by SuspectZero : 01-07-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2018, 02:18 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectZero View Post
Who can see that kind of detail in the dark from the distance he claimed he viewed the man?
Clearly this was a lie.
Suspect Zero,

Hutch saw the man and woman close up at the Queen's Head prior to his watching them go up the court in Dorset Street. He had allegedly observed them for a period of time in Commercial Street.

I hope my maps don't bother you guys but it's easier to illustrate the events based on Hutchinson's statement.

About 2.00am, 9, I was coming by Thrawl Street, Commercial Street, and just before I got to Flower and Dean Street I met the murdered woman Kelly and she said to me, 'Hutchinson, will you lend me Sixpence', I said, 'I can't , I've spent all my money going down to Romford', she said, 'Good morning, I must go and find some money'.
She went away towards Thrawl Street, a man coming in the opposite direction to Kelly tapped her on the shoulder and said something to her, they both burst out laughing. I heard her say, 'Alright', to him, and the man said, 'You will be alright for what I have told you', he then placed his right hand around her shoulders. He also had a kind of a small parcel in his left hand, with a kind of strap round it.
I stood against the lamp of the Queens Head public house and watched him. They both came past me, and the man hung down his head with his hat over his eyes. I stooped down and looked him in the face, he looked at me stern.
They both went into Dorset Street, I followed them. They both stood at the corner of the court for about 3 minutes. He said something to her, she said, 'Alright my dear, come along, you will be comfortable'. He then placed his arm on her shoulder and gave her a kiss, she said she had lost her handkerchief. He then pulled his handkerchief , a red one, out and gave it to her. They both then went up the court together.
I then went to the court to see if I could see them, but could not . I stood there for about three quarters of an hour to see if they came out, they did not, so I went away.


It seems to me the man was following Hutchinson up Commercial Street from the South to the North. That is if Hutch is telling the truth.

Red Dot= Hutchinson meeting Kelly just shy of Flower and Dean. She asks him for money. Hutch was coming from the south at this point heading north.
Short Yellow Line= Mary Jane heading toward Thrawl Street after Hutch has no money to offer.
Short Blue Line= Man coming in the opposite direction as Mary Jane and confronts her.
Red Line= Hutch heading to Queens Head after speaking to Mary Jane.
Long Blue and Yellow Lines= Kelly and Stranger head to Dorset Street and pass Hutch as Queens Head.
Green rectangle= Queens Head


Last edited by jerryd : 01-07-2018 at 02:38 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:45 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Yet for all Hutchinson's "accuracy",he got the name of the pub wrong.

Police statement was corrected to The Queens Head without being initialed.

He also describes button boots and gaiters.

He could not see the buttons on the boots under the gaiters.

Something fishy going on there. Reckon he was a personal groom.

Sort of thing that a sailor possibly learnt during training.
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Last edited by DJA : 01-07-2018 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Buttons and boots.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:52 AM
Richard Patterson Richard Patterson is offline
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Francis Thompson, a modern suspect, had, by November, 1888. A beard. Thompson benefactor, the editor Wilfrid Meynell was friends with George Sims.

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"Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

http://www.francisjthompson.com/
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:04 AM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Patterson View Post
Francis Thompson, a modern suspect, had, by November, 1888. A beard. Thompson benefactor, the editor Wilfrid Meynell was friends with George Sims.

Another bearded Ripper suspect. Here is poet and very bad printer W. J. Ibbett to be discussed by GWU Professor Emeritus Casey Smith at RipperCon in Baltimore on the weekend of April 7-8.

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  #20  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:21 AM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
The photograph of Sims, which supposedly resembled the Ripper, was on the cover of Sims's pamphlet "The Social Kaleidoscope" (1881).

And yes, he did have a full beard.

Here's a rather poor copy of the photograph.

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/10624.html
Here is a better version of the photograph of Sims on the cover of his 1881 pamphlet "The Social Kaleidoscope" and a couple of similar portraits of the writer.







(Note: George Hutchinson was an artist of the day; nothing to do with the eyewitness of the same name in the Mary Jane Kelly case.)
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