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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Media > Periodicals > Whitchapel Society 1888 Journal

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  #1  
Old 10-14-2010, 01:48 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Default Whitechapel Society Journal October 2010

Tumblety's THIRD? - Complicity in the Murders

Greetings all,

The October 2010 issue of Whitechapel Society Journal has an article written by Joe Chetcuti where he contends that a THIRD arrest of Francis Tumblety took place on Saturday afternoon November 17, 1888 at the Euston train station in London. As he stepped off the train from Birmingham, he was immediately arrested. Why is this significant? Many have argued that Francis Tumblety was arrested twice, once for “gross indecency” and once for a violation of the rules of police bail, but he was never arrested for complicity in the Whitechapel murders, thus, not considered by Scotland Yard as a JTR suspect. The Euston arrest was specifically in regards to the Whitechapel crisis, thus, further evidence that Scotland Yard considered him a suspect at the peak of the murders. It also conforms quite nicely to him jumping bail so fast and to his comments in February 1889.

Sincerely,

Mike
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2010, 01:51 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Default Tumblety's THIRD? - Complicity in the Murders

Simon Wood discovered a couple of pieces of literature that told of train travel between Birmingham and the Euston Station in 1888. Here is what Simon came up with:


Murray's Magazine Advertiser
December 1888
Page 18


The London and North Western Railway Company are General Carriers to and from all parts of ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, and the CONTINENT.

EXPRESS SERVICES BETWEEN London (Euston) and BIRMINGHAM under 3 Hours.




Railway Magazine

Professor Foxwell's exhaustive train statistics made during the summer of 1888 revealed the fact that the London and North-Western Railway then gave six down and five up express trains between London and Birmingham. All these trains, with the exception of one up, ran via Northhampton, a distance of 115 miles. The average time for the whole was 2 hours 49 minutes...


Knowing Tumblety's habit of abrupt travel, especially when he was in trouble with the law, it was certainly plausible for him to have boarded a train in London on Friday November 16th after he was released on bail. It would have taken less than three hours for him to return to his boarding house in Birmingham. He probably wasn't released on bail late at night on Friday November 16th. It was more likely that he was released on bail during regular daytime hours. I think he would have had plenty of time to return to his home in Birmingham on that Friday.

A train ride from Birmingham to Euston on Saturday afternoon November 17th could also have been made in less than three hours. It makes you wonder if Tumblety returned to London on November 17th for the purpose of meeting up with the two men who bailed him out of jail the previous day.

Sincerely,

Mike
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2010, 02:09 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Mike,

Just for the record, my supplying Joe Chetcuti with 1888 London to Birmingham rail information should not be seen as an endorsement of the premise behind his latest WSJ article. I was merely helping a friend.

Regards,

Simon
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi Mike,

Just for the record, my supplying Joe Chetcuti with 1888 London to Birmingham rail information should not be seen as an endorsement of the premise behind his latest WSJ article. I was merely helping a friend.

Regards,

Simon
But still, its such a very strange coincidence Simon!
I was fascinated to read Joe"s article citing this "third arrest" which makes complete sense given that the American press made such a big deal at the time of Tumblety being a main JtR suspect, and all this being "followed up" by the Littlechild letter of 1912.
Best
Norma
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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I read Joe Chetcuti"s article on Tumblety,taking up the exciting find earlier this year made by Mike Hawley,which referred to the named ""Doctor" Twomblety and his newly discovered, third arrest in this month"s WS magazine. This piece helped me to understand ,at last, why the American Press had felt so "free" to virtually proclaim Tumblety as the Whitechapel Murderer in such sharp contrast to British newspapers at the time, which did not name him as a suspect for the Whitechapel Murders,as far as we presently know,at any time.
Its reasonably clear, that this arrest of 17th November 1888,quoted by "The Sun" on November 19th 1888 refers to the same "arrest" quoted by the eminently repectable Manchester Guardian in an article of the very same day as The Sun"s in which Tumblety is a named suspect .Several others referred to the arrest without naming Tumblety.Tumblety who was rich and American,was very fond of displaying his valuable jewelry which he apparently showed to his captors during his interrogation over the alleged "gross indecency" .Indeed he probably "managed" his bail jump after waving his "valuables" to the arresting officers, who subsequently arrested him on this much milder charge ,allowing bail,so certainly not a capital offence like murder, for "gross indecency" .He certainly seems to have managed to bribe his escape to France,and this sort of fits with ex CID man Littlechild"s slightly "cautious" wording of 1913,which alludes to Dr T"s hurried and rather mysterious "disappearance" from England"s shores .
[I still believe Tumblety was some kind of "double agent" regarding the Special [Irish] Branch of CID!]
While I am on the subject of Tumblety and the Whitechapel Society journal I wanted to mention how much I enjoyed Mickey Mayhew"s article and its witty headline-"I"ll Tumblety for Ya"---though my enjoyment of that article had much more to do with how Mickey described with such atmosphere his fascination with the sites and revisiting the streets of Whitechapel in his imagination on a Winter"s night and knowing they were where all these people had trodden and where the vile deeds happened, than it was about what he said about Tumblety -which was largely tongue in cheek!
Best
Norma

Last edited by Natalie Severn : 10-14-2010 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:48 PM
Iain Wilson Iain Wilson is offline
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Fascinating stuff - I might just get myself a subscription now
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2010, 02:17 PM
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caz caz is offline
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Hi All,

I find the timeline here intriguing. If this was Tumblety being watched closely by the Birmingham police, from when he 'took up residence' in a common lodging-house there on Monday November 12, 1888 (because they were already aware of his habit of coming to London at the weekends) they would have seen him boarding trains to London twice that week.

According to Joe's article, old Tumblebum was in London at Marlborough St Police Court by the Friday, November 16, being released on bail, which means he would have had to nip back up to Birmingham pretty smartish in order to be seen there boarding the train back down to London again the following afternoon, Saturday 17th, only to find himself back under arrest. And people think it was crazy of the diary author to have a Liverpool cotton merchant visiting London on just five occasions between August and November and keeping his nose clean.

Presumably the Birmingham police made a record of this earlier journey to London that week, between the Tuesday and the Friday? And what business could Tumblety have had in Birmingham or London, that was so pressing that it required him to make this extra round trip before the Saturday afternoon arrest? The length of the journey is nothing - it's the purpose of it that I wonder about. And no, I don't think he suddenly remembered he'd left his wombs on view in the lodging-house.

Love,

Caz
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:29 PM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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I discovered the following article, but I was confused about the Saturday arrest reported in it. I knew Tumblety was originally arrested on Wednesday, Nov 7 and then on Wednesday Nov 14 a warrant went out for his second arrest,


NOVEMBER 19, 1888 – Article in The Sun
TWOMBLETY WELL KNOWN HERE.

Used to Parade in Broadway with a Valet and Two Greyhounds.
“Doctor” Twomblety, who was arrested in London on Saturday on suspicion of being the Whitechapel fiend, first appeared in this city in 1864. He came from Nova Scotia. He rented an office in Broadway near Eighth street, …”



Joe Chetcuti’s discovery of the Saturday Euston station arrest of an American doctor for complicity of the Whitechapel murders answered my questions, especially when we knew Tumblety regularly traveled from Birmingham to Whitechapel on Saturdays. In December 1888 a St John/Ottawa man H.M. Smith, visiting London, wrote to a friend back in Canada:

"Do you recollect Dr Tumblety who came to St John about 1860... do you recollect that it was asserted that he killed Old Podmore, the carpenter... He is the man who was arrested in London 3 weeks ago as the Whitechapel Murderer. He had been living in Birmingham and used to come up to London on Saturday nights... He now spells his name 'Twomblety'. I believe his original name was Mike Sullivan."

Why did he take a Saturday trip back to Whitechapel from Birmingham, a trip he regularly took anyway? Joe’s idea that he may have been meeting up with the two men who bailed him out is certainly plausible, especially if he already had it in his mind to jump bail. If he did not have it in his mind to jump bail, maybe he was doing his usual Saturday trip from Birmingham, but the Euston arrest convinced him immediately jumping bail was appropriate for escape.

Sincerely,

Mike
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2010, 06:21 PM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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...Note also that H.M. Smith's comments are coming from London, which means his source was not U.S. papers.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Robert Robert is offline
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Joe and I have been e-mailing each other today. He said that the story about the arrest of the medical man at Euston Station on Nov 17, 1888 was not a "discovery" on his part. The news reports of that arrest were originally posted years ago on the Casebook. And the letter written by Canadian Deputy Minister William Smith has been known for decades.

"(Tumblety) had been living in Birmingham and used to come up to London on Saturday nights. The police have always had their eyes on him every place he went, and finally the Birmingham Police telegraphed to the London Police that he left for London, and on his arrival he was nabbed accordingly." - Deputy Minister Smith.


Joe needs some help on a particular aspect on this matter. Detective Sergeant Stephen White was sent to Euston Station on the afternoon of Nov 17th. But in addition, a detective named Leach was sent to Willesden Junction in the Harlesden area of north London. No other law enforcement men were reported to have been dispatched on Nov 17th. The London authorities sensed that Euston Station and Willesden Junction were the two most likely points of disembarkment for the suspect who was riding on the train from Birmingham.

Joe received this message from a fellow researcher: "It is interesting to note that Willesden Junction in the Harlesden area of north London was also staked-out. Do you remember the piece that appeared in the Dublin papers in October 1888 (discovered by Alan Sharp but not included in his book) about how the police were looking for an arrival from America who "disappeared suddenly" from a "crowded area in north London," and then later turned up in the East End? This appeared to have been a reference to Tumblety, and if so, it could indicate why the train station in Harlesden was also watched. Just in case the suspect returned to his former haunt."

Joe hopes this isn't a wild goose chase, but if an October 1888 Irish news report about a Harlesden Ripper suspect rings a bell with anybody, please let us know. He would like to read it.
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